Thomas Charles Mackesy - Deptford, London - date and restore please.

[LesleyMWood]

I have attached a photo of a bearded gentleman whom I believe to be either my Gt Grandfather Thomas Charles Mackesy (1862-1914) or my Gt Grandfather Thomas Harris (1849 - 1901).  I have included an image of the back of the mount and researched the photographer Henry Bown who had numerous studios in London.  The last studio mentioned - 29 Stockwell Rd was operating between 1897 and 1899.  Between those dates Thomas Mackesy was aged 35-37 and Thomas Harris 48 - 50.  I would like your opinion as to whether the photo might date back earlier than the year the mount was printed.  An AI dating tool put it at 1879.  What do the fashion clues tell you? A colour restoration would also be great - thanks!

[dobfarm]

A simple sum up from your info in first post

 Thomas Mackesy (or granddad Mackesy written back of the card  )  seems or maybe is the man in the photo - looks aged mid thirties = early to mid sign of hair lose but full dark colour also his skin has a look of a young going to middle age man and if he lost the beard would have a younger looking face/head

A man around 50 usually starts showing toughened skin age look, flicks of grey and more hair loss.

[japeflakes]

..

[LesleyMWood]

Dear Dobfarm.  Thank you for your thoughts regarding age of the bearded man in the photo. I should have explained that although it says Grandad Mackesy on the reverse, some time ago it was shown to his daughter, My Gt Aunt Nell, and she was adamant it wasn't her father. The author of the note, my aunt Muriel had by that time died, so she couldn't be consulted and my own grandmother Margaret Ellen Mackesy had bee dead for some time.  Gt Aunt Nell was in her 80/90s at the time and although she had physical health problems was stated to be as 'bright as a button'.  My sister's conclusion was that this photo must have been our Gt Grandfather Harris.  It wasn't until I looked the photographer up in the London database that I felt able to put a date to the photo.  I totally agree with you about his beard making him look older. He looks very smart doesn't he - for a packing case maker/house painter! We wonder if he was dressed up for a wedding.  Thank you also japeflakes for your 'restore'.  It looks a lot tidier and I presume you have given it a yellow cabinet card mount as they were very popular at the time? Lesley                             

[McGroger]

Just a sepia version from me. I couldn't quite work out what was going on with his neckwear so I've left it vague.
Peter

[RJ137]

My Try

[LesleyMWood]

Thank you Peter, the sepia version is much softer - very nice.  Yes. his neckwear is very odd - a double exposure?  Looks like a winged shirt collar though doesn't it? 
Thanks also to RJ137 for your version.  Lesley

[dobfarm]

Hi LesleyMWood

If your Gt Aunt Nell, was the daughter of Grandad Mackesy then she should know - So  Gt Grandfather Harris must be the man in the photo unless  there is a third option ? that its a photo of another male relative ? 

[LesleyMWood]

Hi dobfarm.  Yes, Gt Aunt Nell was the daughter of Thomas Mackesy.  So as you say she should know if it was her father.  I'm not satisfied that he is Gt Grandfather Harris who would have been almost 50 at the time.  Question: Have I got the date of the photograph right?  Jayne Shrimpton says winged collars were becoming fashionable in the late 19th century and continued over to the early 20th century.  There again she also says that the three piece lounge suite became the popular Sunday best of the working man in the late 1860s & 1870s.  So, I'm back where I started wondering if this photo was older than the mount suggests?