Occupations

[ShaunJ]

Could be. One word for a teacher in Welsh is athrawon

[Bookbox]

It's Ass(istant) Overseer (he collected the poor rates).

[ShaunJ]

Ah yes. Bookbox has solved it. Robert Thomas was Assistant Overseer in the 1851 census.

[johneowens]

Ah yes. Bookbox has solved it. Robert Thomas was Assistant Overseer in the 1851 census.

Many thanks, Shaun and Bookbox.

Given Robert's bureaucratic/titular role as Parish Clerk, I think an ancilliary bureaucratic/titular role, also appointed by the parish, is more likely. Additionally, the enumerator has apparently been impressed by the importance of these roles in this tiny village and capitalised both titles.

AI corroborates Bookbox: "Under the Old Poor Law, an assistant overseer was ...appointed by a parish to assist the overseers of the poor with the administration of relief to the impoverished. These individuals were often responsible for tasks like collecting the poor rate, maintaining records, and managing outdoor relief ... which could include money, food, clothing, or housing in an alms house."

However, AI is not clear as to whether it was a paid or unpaid position. My guess is that Robert was probably paid as his parish combined the roles.

Many thanks

Best wishes

John

[Bookbox]

However, AI is not clear as to whether it was a paid or unpaid position. My guess is that Robert was probably paid as his parish combined the roles.

The AI has confused the issue by citing the Old Poor Law. This example is after 1834 and therefore comes under the New Poor Law. At this period the Assistant Overseer was a paid position (while the Overseer was unpaid).

Also, under the New Poor Law, the Assistant Overseer did not normally distribute poor relief - after 1834 that was the role of the Relieving Officer.

Caution is needed when using AI.

[johneowens]

Absolutely right. Bookbox. No substitute for original research.

Many thanks again for this. From my family research perspective, since parish clerk/assistant overseer would have been a significantly responsible position within the parish, this is an early example of a family member having edged up the social ladder.  Indeed, as Shaun mentioned, Robert had already been a school teacher in 1841 and subsequently in 1871

I wonder, however, whether he - as an assistant overseer in Carreghofa, a very small rural area (pop. 334 in 1851) - would have a relieving officer.

BTW, Shaun, I have not be able to find Robert in the 1851C. Have you?

Best

John

[Bookbox]

From my family research perspective, since parish clerk/assistant overseer would have been a significantly responsible position within the parish, this is an early example of a family member having edged up the social ladder.  Indeed, as Shaun mentioned, Robert had already been a school teacher in 1841 and subsequently in 1871

More to the point, there would have been a limited number of people in the parish who were able to read/write in English (as opposed to Welsh) and prepare accounts, and would be able to undertake these offices.

I wonder, however, whether he - as an assistant overseer in Carreghofa, a very small rural area (pop. 334 in 1851) - would have a relieving officer.

Under the New Poor Law (after 1834), all parishes, however small, were grouped into Poor Law Unions. Each Poor Law Union had a number of Relieving Officers covering the districts within the union. Carreghofa was in the Llanfyllin Union, so one of the Llanfyllin Union's relieving officers would have had responsibility for distributing the poor relief in that parish.

After 1834, assistant overseers did not normally distribute relief. They were on the other side of the parish accounting process, as it were - collecting the parish rates from rate-payers. These payments would then be used by the poor law union to fund poor-relief payments to those who were eligible.

Llanfyllin is a very interesting poor-law union, because the old workhouse is one of very few workhouses that survive in anything resembling their original form. It is home to the Workhouse History Centre and is open to visitors.
For more info, see https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Llanfyllin/#Post-1834
and
https://www.llanfyllinworkhouse.org.uk/history

[Bookbox]

There are a number of letters to, from or concerning Robert Thomas, Assistant Overseer of Carreghofa, held in the poor-law correspondence (MH 12) at the National Archives.

They are described in the online catalogue, and the images of the letters can be downloaded free of charge. You can select any that may be of interest from this link:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_aq=llanfyllin&_ep=robert+thomas&_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1800&_st=adv

[johneowens]

Wow!

Many thanks, Bookbox, for the clarifications and reference. You're a veritable mine of information. Will check this source out. Clearly, I shall need to spend some time reading the letter to understand better apparent disputes over cash. I did see however that Robert was also an independent preacher
.
Yes, indeed, there would have been very few folks able to read/write in English in this location at this time. From my family history's social mobility perspective (his sister Catherine was my second gt grandmother, thus the appearance of niece Margaret Owens as a visitor in 1861), probably the more interesting question is how Robert (b. Oswestry 1819) became a school teacher by 1841 @ aged 20; his father Robert (b. Moelfre, Llansilin, Denbs), was apparently an unskilled labourer.

Best

John