Author Topic: 1911 census  (Read 1483 times)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #18 on: Monday 18 September 23 11:49 BST (UK) »
The people of Pembroke didn't survive on rabbits alone.

There were fish merchants and dealers in Pembroke in 1911. There was the Seear family and the Boby family, both in Main street, Pembroke.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline maddys52

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #19 on: Monday 18 September 23 11:51 BST (UK) »
You may have already seen this newspaper item from 1918. Richard DEVOTE is described as a "licensed victualler and dealer" (he looks after the iron business while his wife looks after the licensed premises):
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4119307/4119310/18/%22richard%20devote%22

Offline mothball

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #20 on: Monday 18 September 23 12:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much Maddy, this is what I have discovered doing my own research in Pembrokeshire. There was an area behind Pembroke Castle called 'Catshole Quarry', which goes back centuries as a place where gypsies would live. The BBC and newspaper did an article on gypsies in Pembrokeshire, and they found this area was originally outside Pembroke Town walls, and 20% of the local population were found to have gypsy roots. This part of history seems to have been written out. However in the 19th century it seems to be settled in the rough end of Pembroke town, they weren't only Italian but they were also Irish and some English. They're newspaper cuttings about the Price family living at the quarry having disputes.

The presumption that the shops were chandlers or anything to do with boats and ships are mistaken. As fellow Rootschats have discovered.  It is a shame that some of the historian's archives in Pembrokeshire they refer to the shops being to do with boats and ships. I think one reason is because they were very near Ropewalk Terrace, a very popular name in ports  around the country. Originally it was plain ropewalk and because Pembroke is built on a long rectangular stone mound, the only place to make rope was outside the town walls in a field called Rope Walk.

So the family tradition was as described via your link, and they were as surprised as I was to discover the true meaning of the shops.  My family certainly looked Italian very dark skinned, but I have a photo of one of the original Italians, and he does look very much non-European.  It's early days so I don't know if he was genetically Roma, gypsy, or traveller, it's all a bit vague in my head.

But thanks for the link very interesting. Steven
Devote/o/i/a/ee - Italy - PembrokeMorris - Pembroke Dock 1786Wignall - London - 1800JonesMaesteg

Offline McGroger

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 19 September 23 05:19 BST (UK) »
I agree with the several people who think it is meant to say & fish dealer/s
It appears to be written in the same hand as the words Marine Stores but in a different hand to the words General Dealer. Actually, I think it reads & fish dearles, the writer inadvertently putting the r in the wrong spot.
Peter

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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 19 September 23 08:10 BST (UK) »
Quote
It appears to be written in the same hand as the words Marine Stores but in a different hand to the words General Dealer.

Agree with that; and comparing it with the household list, it's not in the enumerator's hand.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline mothball

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Re: 1911 census
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 19 September 23 09:45 BST (UK) »
I agree with the several people who think it is meant to say & fish dealer/s
It appears to be written in the same hand as the words Marine Stores but in a different hand to the words General Dealer. Actually, I think it reads & fish dearles, the writer inadvertently putting the r in the wrong spot.
Peter


I'm afraid you haven't read the links which explains more fully the business of a marine store dealer. If you read the links

I found the following explanation of Marine Store Dealer: A person who buys and sells used cordage, bunting, rags, timber, metal, etc, sorts waste, repairs and mends sacks.

The idea that he was somehow selling fish is like saying and Mind Out was also making crochet doilies.  It is totally out of character of the trade. We're going to have to disagree on this and I'm going to close the discussion because we have all been doing research long enough to know that the numerators and indeed even people themselves who didn't read and write have put allsorts of things on the census returns. I will still go by my suggestion that the initial word is if you are 'furn'. Shortfall furniture because his son had an antique shop briefly and also I've discovered on the 1923 Kelly senses so did one of the other Italian families. Therefore selling secondhand furniture would be more appropriate for this type of business.  There are fish dealers in nearby Tenby and Milford Haven.
Devote/o/i/a/ee - Italy - PembrokeMorris - Pembroke Dock 1786Wignall - London - 1800JonesMaesteg