William Joy c1850 - Dorset help with Unknown Birth and Death?

[toby_ax]

Hi all,

Please would somebody be able to help me with a my 4th great grandmother's first husband please? I am struggling to find anything about him.
To start with her,
Her name was Caroline Lawrence. b1830.

She married a William Joy in 1849 in Bridport, Dorset. - The person I am trying to find out more, and his birth and death years.

In 1852, their daughter Susan Joy was born. She marks William Joy (deceased) on her marriage to
Charles Earey.

Then in October 1857, Caroline Joy marries Charles Mills in Axminster, Devon, United Kingdom.

This could put William Joy's death date anywhere between late 1851 and pre October of 1857.

Although I am not directly related to him I would still like to know more about him. I have checked FreeBMD and GRO but I am receiving no results.

Caroline was born in Bridport Dorset (place of first wedding), and died in Axminster, Dorset (place of second wedding). So didn't leave Dorset, and so I am unsure on wether William did too. All of Carolines other children (2nd marriage) were born in Lyme, Dorset, England, and Axminster. Susan was the only one born in Bridport.

Caroline Joy is living with her parents in 1851, and her husband does not live at the same adress, but I am yet to find a census for him in 1851.

I am assuming that William died and then Caroline Remarried, but if that is not the case, Susan Joy marks her father dead at her marriage in Oct 1874.

Many thanks for you time reading. I have hit a brick wall with William.

Edit: I can not see the marriage of Charles Mills and Caroline Joy to see if Caroline is regarded as a Widow. Although I am very much assuming that she was. I only can see their marriage on the Marriage Index.

[CaroleW]

You need to buy a copy of the 1849 marriage cert to establish Williams age & occupation plus his fathers name.  If he was a seaman - he may have died at sea

[toby_ax]

Thanks Carole, ill look into it  .

Susan Joy lists father's occupation as Shoe Maker.
I had also wondered dying at sea, does that equal no death record in any form?

[CaroleW]

Depends where he died and whether any merchant seaman records are available.  Not always easy for that period.  That assumes he was a seaman??

[Neale1961]

1841 census District 1 East Street Bridport
There is a William Joy age 24 (I think it says Shoe M)

Head of house is
Betty Joy 67 Twine maker
Mary Joy 36 Twine maker
John Joy 27 Twine maker
William Joy 24 Shoe M?
(all born in county)

Note – there are a number of other Joy families on the same page – all into twine making

1851 census East St Bridport
Mary Joy (Head) 46 Pauper twine spinner
William Joy (brother) married 33 cordwainer (shoe maker), born Bridport.
Simeon Joy 15 Nephew - he and John are sons of Thomas Joy
John Joy 13 Nephew
Elizabeth Joy 6 Niece


William Joy Baptism 24 Nov 1817 Presbyterian Bridport
Parents Richard Joy and Betty (nee Crabb)

1871 census Farnborough HAMPSHIRE
William Joy 53 lodger, unmarried, shoemaker, born Bridport Dorset

1881 census Farnham Surrey Union Workhouse
William Joy 67 unmarried, shoemaker, born Bridport Dorset

Probable death in Farnham Union 10th Feb 1891 - William Joy (age 78)

[CaroleW]

If Caroline Joy remarried 1857 & daughter Susan showed her father as deceased on her marriage cert in 1874 - William Joy must have died pre 1857 so cannot be the death in 1891 or any of the census entries after 1851

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

A possible death at sea,

British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials
Registers Of Wages And Effects Of Deceased Seamen, 1852-1889

Wm JOY
Death date:  13 Jul 1857
Vessel name:  Orinoco
Type:    At Sea
Home port:  London

BT   153
Box    0002
Page    423


That is the reference number given but I can't find it at the NA.

Regards,
Daisy

[Neale1961]

If Caroline Joy remarried 1857 & daughter Susan showed her father as deceased on her marriage cert in 1874 - William Joy must have died pre 1857 so cannot be the death in 1891 or any of the census entries after 1851

Of course, the 1849 marriage certificate needs to be looked at, as it is primary source information.

I have not made any assumptions based on the information on Susan’s marriage record, because we know from experience that this is often not 100% correct. (Susan may have been led to believe her father had died.) Nor have I come up with a fanciful and unsupported notion that a shoemaker suddenly became a sailor and died at sea.

In the absence of a suitable death record for William Joy before 1857, one has to consider other possibilities. I have suggested just one of those possibilities with records to support it. William Joy a shoemaker in Bridport who is married in 1851, but not with his wife, who then is unmarried in subsequent census. It is a possibility that William Joy and Caroline separated in about 1851, or one deserted the other. Then after the required 7 year wait, Caroline legally married again. (We have come across many similar cases.)

It is really up to toby_ax to decide what steps to take now. Although William Joy is not a direct ancestor, understanding the circumstance of Caroline’s marriage to him, gives him more knowledge about her and her life.

[Biggles50]

If you get stuck then Dorset FHS can probably help.

We visited them whilst on a Family History Road Trip a few years ago and they could not have been more accommodating plus the information they held that was not digitised was very very useful.