Author Topic: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria  (Read 2434 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 27 August 23 04:17 BST (UK) »
I hope we are all on the right track which points to Job BAKER, Rebecca (nee BAKER)and John  BAKER being siblings.

I agree with fletcherandhook there could well be some stretching and manipulating of facts in the recording of children to John BAKER.

Slightly odd... 2 things about John.
There is barely 6 months between the death of wife 1, Hannah PRIDE and marriage to wife 2 Sarah LOCKIER. Possibly a previous association??



Hannah PRIDE and John were married a great many years before the birth of the child Jane Rebecca and this seems to have been mananged when Hannah was just over 40.

Perhaps not of immediate value, but good for the record.-Below, Ancestry link to the hospital death of Sarah BAKER (nee LOCKIER), the second wife 28/6/90. She was in hospital 10 days. I think complications from kydney stones.
The column in the book headed By What Ship, is blank.
This would suggest she was Aust born.
(the marriage record to John shows her  father as  William )

https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/62318/images/62318_b1110997-00193?usePUB=true&pId=212622

Sue
ADDING  Not as a criticism, but as a minor correction.
Baytree the link you have given for the will of Chas BRINKWORTH is actually the link to the will of Job BAKER.

This one is to BRINKWORTH. where we see the signed family names. ;D

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-G6MK?i=342&cc=3007557
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline baytree1970

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 27 August 23 11:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks for corrections, etc.

Any ideas where I can find a birth record for George c.1848? I've looked everywhere I can think of, but maybe there's an Australian source would have something?

Establishing George's parents seems the key missing piece right now.

 :)

Offline sparrett

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 27 August 23 12:42 BST (UK) »
Well, I feel if that was available, it may have been found by now.

In spite of the  thoughts fletcherandhook has earlier mentioned, I would be considering an outlay of $20 on the Death Certificate.

There may be unexpected information in it, although it obviously will not have his parents' names.

The informant may be someone who was a relative or it may be an officiating person who had access to information about the deceased furnished by a knowledgeable relative. Or Not ::)

Completed fully, a Victorian DC. has this included. It is a gamble for sure ??? ;D

Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace

Sue
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Offline baytree1970

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 27 August 23 12:53 BST (UK) »
Yikes, more family history money!! It's not a cheap hobby...

I'm not confident the baptism can be found, but I also suspect nobody has been looking for it - everyone seems to have found the baptism of George, son of Job and Eliza, and decided that was correct. I think the search stopped there.

I did try to search on the official South Australia website but it kept insisting I'd entered an incorrect format for the dates - but there's no guidance on correct formats! If anyone knows how to get this to work can you please let me know?

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/family-and-community/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-research


Offline fletcherandhook

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 27 August 23 14:07 BST (UK) »

I don't know much about Australian genealogy. Is there likely to be a marriage cert or death cert for George which provides names of his parents?  :)

Are you in Australia?  If not, current exchange rates are in your favour.  To order a digital copy from Victoria is $22, that's GBP 11.19  or USD 14.08

You could go down the path of DNA testing, assuming you are a direct descendant of George Baker and Mary Iles, and want to bust through that brickwall.

Australian date format is day/month/year.



Offline baytree1970

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #41 on: Monday 28 August 23 18:16 BST (UK) »
I have the death cert for George now - see attached.

Born North Adelaide, in South Aus for 18 years, then moved to Victoria.

Nothing really to help identify his parents.

I've been through a bunch of directories for Adelaide and there are quite a few Baker families here at the time, impossible to know which is which.

Offline baytree1970

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #42 on: Monday 28 August 23 21:30 BST (UK) »
Here's the Will of John Baker who married Hannah Pride. Two daughters are mentioned, as per the obituary mentioned previously. No mention of a son George.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVN-C9ZP-5?i=280&cc=3007557&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQR9H-D6ZM

Looking at the 1841 census for Adelaide, there are 30 Baker entries, including 4 Johns and several 'J's. Given John Baker doesn't mention a son, and that George claims not to know his mother's name on his marriage certificate when Hannah Baker was still living, I'm increasingly of the opinion that Baker / Pride are not the correct parents for George Baker who married Mary Iles.


Offline fletcherandhook

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #43 on: Monday 28 August 23 22:17 BST (UK) »
Just some information about the hospital and the doctor to go with the Death certificate.

IMPROVED HOSPITAL
FOR ARARAT?
-_
£19,000 Remodelling Plan
ARARAT, Wednesday plan to remodel the Ararat District Hospital at a cost of about £18,000 or £18,500, and to alter the infectious diseases ward at a cost of about £1,000, was submitted to
the hospital committee last night by a Melbourne firm of architects. Reconstruction of the main building to provide a long single-story facade is proposed.
The plan provides for the total accommodation of 43 beds, excluding the midwifery wards, but Including wards for intermediate patients.
Dr. de Crespigny said that the medical staff favoured the proposal to make the hospital modem, and it was generally felt that the present time was opportune to improve accommodation.
| The building committee will consider the plan before holding a conference with the inspector of charities. The Colac Hospital will be Inspected.

Published 20 September 1934
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10970212

* * * *

Dr Frank de Crespigny,  George was certainly under the care of one of the best doctors.  God knows, we have a frightening shortage of medical physicians in the Central HighlandsGrampians Region of Victoria now. 


FRANCIS PHILIP CHAMPION de CRESPIGNY
DOCTOR, MAYOR
28-5-1918 - 20-9-2010

BY MICHAEL COLLINS PERSSE

FRANK de Crespigny, a revered general practitioner at Ararat for 41 years and a former mayor of the south-western Victorian town, has died in Geelong after a fall. He was 92.

He came from an ancient family whose name "Champion" derived from descent in the male line from custodians of the castle of Falaise, birthplace of William the Conqueror, and hence Champions to the Dukes of Normandy. A 17th-century Richard Champion married the sole heiress of the Comtes de Crespigny. Their son, Champion de Crespigny and an officer in the French army, but a Huguenot, crossed the English Channel when persecution of Protestants revived and became a colonel in the British army.

Five generations later, Philip Champion de Crespigny, who in 1852 arrived in Victoria, was a gold warden and magistrate at Ararat. His elder son, twice married, fathered six sons of whom the second, Sir Trent, a founder and president of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, was an older half-brother of Frank's father, Francis. [...]

Knowing his patients thoroughly, practising true "medical friendship", he became a skilled surgeon, anaesthetist, and obstetrician, trusted for his kindness and clinical acumen.

(continued at link)
https://www.smh.com.au/national/a-medical-all-rounder-on-the-rounds-of-ararat-20101029-177gd.html


Offline sparrett

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Re: George Baker (c.1846-1944) m. Mary Iles (1858-1893) from Ararat, Victoria
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 29 August 23 04:02 BST (UK) »
Relflections..... ;D George's DC
The informant was probably getting his information from one of the offspring of the deceased.
 
The age at marriage of 19 years is incorrect as permission would have been needed for the marriage and thus be recorded on the cert as Mary’s was.
I am also a little doubtful that he was 26 at marriage (on that cert.)as he states.  May have shaved off a couple of years so as not to appear to be taking a wife half his age.!

I would think the age at death is likely correct 98 so a birthdate of 1846 which predates the marriage of
Hannah and John BAKER Jan. 1847. 

I think  Hannah Pride arrive in May 1846 per Isabella Watson from London and signed thanks to surgeon published in the newspaper.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/73843871?searchTerm=%22hannah%20pride%22

Although she is not showing on passenger list. ?
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/1846IsabellaWatson.htm

"A colonist of 33 years" ties in. Not much time for any premarriage infants. 

John BAKER states bachelor so not likely to be bringing an infant into this marriage as result of being widowed and no son mentioned in his will.

Overall I do think George may be the son of another John Baker of North Adelaide.
Sue



 
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