LOOKING FOR DIRECTION - WW1 SOLDIER

[David Hutchinson]

Hello,

I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction to discover more about an ancestor known to have been in the British Army in WW1.

I shall list what I know and then ask some questions if that is okay.

He was born Frederick James Dougan in Belfast in March 1888 (either the 6th or the 16th).

I have discovered that he enlisted on 21 July 1908 BUT he did so under the name of 'Patrick Dougan'.  I know that initially he was in the Royal Irish Rifles (Regimental No 9066).  It appears he was wounded in France and, possibly because his battalion was decimated, he found himself in the Northumberland Fusiliers (Regimental No 50094).

He was discharged on 26 April 1918 and his discharge certificate (see photo) lists him as Lance Corporal Frederick Jas P Dougan of the Northumberland Fusiliers, Reg No 50094.  We believe the 'P' probably stands for Patrick.  Other than this discharge certificate, every other military document I have located lists him only as 'Patrick Dougan' and makes no reference at all to 'Frederick' or 'James'.

The name 'Patrick' does not appear in any of his civilian records before or after his time in the army. 

QUESTIONS

I would love to discover:

(1)  Any documents completed at the time of his enlistment in 1908;
(2)  Any reasons why his time in the army was under the name of 'Patrick Dougan' when all documents before and after his army service are in the name of Frederick Dougan;
(3)  Anything he did before WW1 broke out.  Family info is that he served time in India.  Are such records available?

The information I have accumulated so far was from Fold 3 and Forces War Records.  I seem to have exhausted all their information.

Any assistance provided would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

David

[Andy J2022]

Hi

You say that his transfer to the Northumberland Fusiliers might have been "possibly because his battalion was decimated", but do you know which battalion he was in? It was the 2nd Battalion which was largely wiped out at the  Battle of La Bassée in October 1914.  Added: The 1st Battalion also suffered heavy casualties later on. From Wikipedia: " ... by the end of one attack in 1916, it was down to only one surviving officer and sixty men."

In 1908 there were two regular battalions, neither of which were serving in India as far as I can tell.
It is also possible that he joined the newly created Territorial Force, in which case he may have originally been in the 3rd or 4th Battalion. If he was then he certainly wouldn't have served in India and would only have been called up in 1914. However his regimental number indicates that he joined either the 1st or 2nd Battalion.

I expect that you already know that the reason he was discharged was that he was no longer fit for further service due to a gunshot would. There's no record that I've been able to find of when he received the wound or where he was treated. I think it is significant that he only appears to have received the Silver War Badge and none of the other standard medals one would expect for a soldier who had served in France and apparently been wounded there. The only MIC I have found for him does not record that he was in France. There may be a Northumberland Fusiliers' medal roll on Ancestry that I haven't seen.

There were quite a few Patrick Dougans in the Royal Irish Rifles! They were probably all known as Paddy.

[hanes teulu]

You can confirm DoB and full name from birth registration on Irishgenealogy.

There's a 2nd Frederick James Dougan born 1888, Belfast.

[AllanUK]

His entry in the database British Army, Northumberland Fusiliers 1881-1920 as held on Find My Past records that he was first in the 1st Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles and then the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers. His entry in the Medal Rolls (for his British War Medal and Victory Medal) is under his Northumberland Fusiliers number but his entry also states that he was previously with the 1st Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles.

[AllanUK]

As he was discharged on medical grounds, he would have been awarded a pension. A search has found that he was discharged due to a Gun Shot Wound, Left Leg. His pension card states that his disability had been classified as 20%, his initial pension was 27 shillings and 6 pence per week, payable from the 27th April 1918. At some stage, his pension dropped to 8 shillings per week. His card shows that he was living at 78 Eliza Street, Belfast.

[David Hutchinson]

You can confirm DoB and full name from birth registration on Irishgenealogy.

There's a 2nd Frederick James Dougan born 1888, Belfast.

Yes, his birth record lists his DOB as 16 March 1888 however, when I tracked down his baptism record, it stated he was born on 6 March and baptised on 8 March.  Obviously one of them is wrong but not sure which.

Thanks also re the second Frederick James Dougan born 1888 in Belfast.  I did locate a second Frederick Dougan from Belfast in the army records but was able to confirm he was the wrong person.  May I ask where you found this second Frederick James Dougan?

David

[David Hutchinson]

Hi

You say that his transfer to the Northumberland Fusiliers might have been "possibly because his battalion was decimated", but do you know which battalion he was in? It was the 2nd Battalion which was largely wiped out at the  Battle of La Bassée in October 1914.  Added: The 1st Battalion also suffered heavy casualties later on. From Wikipedia: " ... by the end of one attack in 1916, it was down to only one surviving officer and sixty men."

In 1908 there were two regular battalions, neither of which were serving in India as far as I can tell.
It is also possible that he joined the newly created Territorial Force, in which case he may have originally been in the 3rd or 4th Battalion. If he was then he certainly wouldn't have served in India and would only have been called up in 1914. However his regimental number indicates that he joined either the 1st or 2nd Battalion.

I expect that you already know that the reason he was discharged was that he was no longer fit for further service due to a gunshot would. There's no record that I've been able to find of when he received the wound or where he was treated. I think it is significant that he only appears to have received the Silver War Badge and none of the other standard medals one would expect for a soldier who had served in France and apparently been wounded there. The only MIC I have found for him does not record that he was in France. There may be a Northumberland Fusiliers' medal roll on Ancestry that I haven't seen.

There were quite a few Patrick Dougans in the Royal Irish Rifles! They were probably all known as Paddy.

Thanks Andy.

I can confirm that he was in the 1st Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles and the 3rd Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers.

Records suggest he also received the Victory Medal, the 1914/15 Star and British War Medals WW1.  I have attached a photo of his medals if that helps.

His son is actually still alive and is quite sure he was in India prior to WW1.  Just can't find any record of it.

Interestingly, I also located a card which is stamped 'DEAD - 25/2/26'.  This is a bit confusing as I know for sure he died in 1956.

I am making these enquiries for his son (82 years old) who was only 16 years when his father died and he doesn't know a lot about him.

Regards,

David

PS:  for some reason it won't allow me to attach photos.  I shall post this reply and then try again separately.

[David Hutchinson]

Hi

You say that his transfer to the Northumberland Fusiliers might have been "possibly because his battalion was decimated", but do you know which battalion he was in? It was the 2nd Battalion which was largely wiped out at the  Battle of La Bassée in October 1914.  Added: The 1st Battalion also suffered heavy casualties later on. From Wikipedia: " ... by the end of one attack in 1916, it was down to only one surviving officer and sixty men."

In 1908 there were two regular battalions, neither of which were serving in India as far as I can tell.
It is also possible that he joined the newly created Territorial Force, in which case he may have originally been in the 3rd or 4th Battalion. If he was then he certainly wouldn't have served in India and would only have been called up in 1914. However his regimental number indicates that he joined either the 1st or 2nd Battalion.

I expect that you already know that the reason he was discharged was that he was no longer fit for further service due to a gunshot would. There's no record that I've been able to find of when he received the wound or where he was treated. I think it is significant that he only appears to have received the Silver War Badge and none of the other standard medals one would expect for a soldier who had served in France and apparently been wounded there. The only MIC I have found for him does not record that he was in France. There may be a Northumberland Fusiliers' medal roll on Ancestry that I haven't seen.

There were quite a few Patrick Dougans in the Royal Irish Rifles! They were probably all known as Paddy.

TRYING AGAIN TO ATTACH PHOTOS.

[David Hutchinson]

Hi

You say that his transfer to the Northumberland Fusiliers might have been "possibly because his battalion was decimated", but do you know which battalion he was in? It was the 2nd Battalion which was largely wiped out at the  Battle of La Bassée in October 1914.  Added: The 1st Battalion also suffered heavy casualties later on. From Wikipedia: " ... by the end of one attack in 1916, it was down to only one surviving officer and sixty men."

In 1908 there were two regular battalions, neither of which were serving in India as far as I can tell.
It is also possible that he joined the newly created Territorial Force, in which case he may have originally been in the 3rd or 4th Battalion. If he was then he certainly wouldn't have served in India and would only have been called up in 1914. However his regimental number indicates that he joined either the 1st or 2nd Battalion.

I expect that you already know that the reason he was discharged was that he was no longer fit for further service due to a gunshot would. There's no record that I've been able to find of when he received the wound or where he was treated. I think it is significant that he only appears to have received the Silver War Badge and none of the other standard medals one would expect for a soldier who had served in France and apparently been wounded there. The only MIC I have found for him does not record that he was in France. There may be a Northumberland Fusiliers' medal roll on Ancestry that I haven't seen.

There were quite a few Patrick Dougans in the Royal Irish Rifles! They were probably all known as Paddy.

..... AND AGAIN.