Author Topic: Who are these people?  (Read 3856 times)

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 01 June 23 09:53 BST (UK) »
Re the newspaper article, it is interesting that there's a reference to the Warwick estate and that Mr Stanyer was claiming that he was not at fault because of the faulty gates. This suggest to me that the Warwick Estate were the landlords and he was the tenant, and as such he wasn't responsible for the repair of the gates.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 01 June 23 10:20 BST (UK) »
A quick search of the holdings in the Warwickshire County Archives brings up the document reference shown in the image below.
There is also this entry:
Quote
      06404 - WARWICK DISTRICT COUNCIL - 1884-1947
       Doc Ref No   CR2487/Box 113/4877
Title   Plan of Dutch Barn, Rouncil Lane, Fernhill Farm, Kenilworth
Date   24 Jul 1962
Description   Owner: Mr W Brandish. Depositor: Bass Engineers Ltd
Level   Item
In addition there is a considerable number of items including several photograph collections relating to the Bostock family. However it's not possible to say if this is the same family that we have been considering. The collection is in series CR 1680.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 01 June 23 10:46 BST (UK) »
Further douments held by Warwickshire County Record Office

Reference: CR1886/M501
Title: Wedgnock Park: Fernhill Farm and area. Not signed. Size: 38" x 18". No scale.
Date: N.D. [c.1880?]
Note: According to the Our Warwickshire website:
 “Wedgnock Park was a Medieval deer park. It was situated 1km north east of the Central Hospital, Warwick.
1 Wedgnock is one of three parks attached to the Castle of Warwick, which are marked on maps of Saxton and Speed. John Rous, who died in 1491, states that the park was begun to be imparked by Henry de Newburgh, Earl of Warwick, at the opening of the 12th century, in imitation of the park at Woodstock (Oxon). The park is recorded again at the time of Henry III (1216-72) and 1316. At the time of Edward I (1272-1307) the park contained 20 acres and it was enlarged during Edward III’s reign (1327-77). Source contains historical notes.
2 Wedgnock Park is shown on Saxton’s map of Warwickshire (1576) as extending N of and including Goodrest Lodge. 1961: The park boundary could not be found. Its S boundary could have followed the parish boundary from SP2767 to SP2667, but there is no trace of a former park boundary.
3 In 1845, at the time of the tithe communication, it was held to contain 2831 acres. Only 42 acres were then in use as a deer park. In shape it was an irregular diamond, about four miles by one and three quarters, extending from the canal bridge on the Birmingham Road N to Fernhill, and from Catchems End on the SW to Goodrest Farm at the NE. A detailed history of the park is given.

Reference: CR1886/M529
Title: Plan of Fernhill Farm. Not signed. Size: 38" x 27. No scale.
Date:  N.D [late 19c?]
 
Reference: CR1886/M193
Title: Wedgnock Park: Fernhill Farm, occupied by Mr R. Smith, (tracing). Not signed. Size: 18" x 14". No scale.
Date: N.D. [mid-late 19c]

Note: Possibly Mr R Smith is the Richard H Smith who was in occupation of Fernhill Farm in 1911.

Offline AlanBoyd

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 01 June 23 12:05 BST (UK) »
@reply 36 the 1845 tithe map has the western farm as “in the occupation of the Earl of Warwick and others”. It also clearly shows the lane past the farm as a track with junctions to lanes at both ends. I’d post an image, but I had a tithe map image deleted in the past, so I guess that it is not allowed.

The boundary of the tithe map is the same as the St Mary’s parish boundary. There doesn’t seem to be a tithe map available for the other farms.
Boyd, Dove, Blakey, Burdon


Offline AlanBoyd

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 01 June 23 12:31 BST (UK) »
The marriage of James Henry Lloyd and Annie Mary Powers in 1943 – "their future home will be at Fernhill Farm".

18th April 1942; Coventry Standard
Quote
Mr. J. H. Lloyd and Miss A. M. Powers.
Two well-known Kenilworth (both late of Allesley) farming families were united when Mr. James Henry Lloyd (second son of Mr. and Mrs. J. S. Lloyd, Goodrest Farm, Kenilworth) and Miss Annie Mary Powers (only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. J. R.. Powers, Hurst Farm, Kenilworth) were married in St. John the Baptist's Church, Westwood Heath. ...

...  A reception was held at The Café, Berkswell. Their future home will be at Fernhill Farm, Kenilworth.
Boyd, Dove, Blakey, Burdon

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 01 June 23 14:03 BST (UK) »
Good call Alan. I think that must be the direction travel for Ellie, namely to discover the descendants of the Stanyer and Lloyd families, since they are the most likely subjects in the photographs which were the starting point for this thread. However given the date of April 1942 that the newly wed Lloyds came to Fernhill, and Ellie saying that the photographs relate to 1937 and 1941,  maybe it's just the Stanyer family she needs to look for.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 01 June 23 14:07 BST (UK) »
The following extracts, which contain references to Fernhill Farm, are taken from an article on the British History Online website, entitled  The borough of Warwick: The castle and castle estate in Warwick. Apart from the town of Warwick itself, the land of the Warwick estate was roughly divided into three areas: Wedgnock Park, the Temple Manor and Castle Park.  References to the ‘earl’  are to the Earl of Warwick, who for the purposes of this thread was Leopold Greville, 6th Earl of Warwick


"In 1819 the earl's court baron was hearing presentments of encroachments in the shape of steps, railings or porticoes projecting into the streets, which were regarded as the waste ground of the manor. (fn. 257) The jury at the same court set out the bounds of the manor, showing that it included the whole of the parishes of St. Mary and St. Nicholas as well as land in Budbrooke, Hatton, and Beausale formerly in Wedgnock Park. (fn. 258)

[…]
WEDGNOCK PARK
The dimensions of Wedgnock Park were set down in 1845 at the time of tithe commutation, when it was held to contain 2,831 acres, made up of 1,556 acres in St. Mary's parish, 726 acres in Beausale, 203 acres in Hatton, 278 acres in Budbrooke, 41 acres in Leek Wootton, and 27 acres in Kenilworth. Only 42 acres were then in use as a deer park. The shape of Wedgnock Park was an irregular diamond, about 4 miles by 1¾, extending from the canal bridge on the Birmingham road (formerly called Wedgnock Lane) northwards to Fernhill, and from Catchems End on the south-west to Goodrest Farm on the north-east. (fn. 300) The boundary of the manor of Warwick north of the town coincided with that of the park, and the 'Duchy bank', which the jury in 1819 regarded as the manorial boundary for long stretches, (fn. 301) could be recognised in 1965 as the bank on which the park pale stood, most apparent where it crosses and recrosses Roundshill Lane.


[…]

In 1601 the Privy Council instructed the surveyor for the county, and others, to value the park, exclusive of the herbage, pannage and fishing already let. They answered that 500 deer of all kinds had ordinarily been kept there, and not more 'for that the whole park is a sour ground, and the situation of the greatest part thereof is low and much subject to water, and the higher ground overgrown with shrubs'. If disparked, they thought the ground worth £50 in excess of the herbage. (fn. 354) To answer a further enquiry concerning Fernhill, sometimes described as part of the park and sometimes said to adjoin it, they took the evidence of an aged inhabitant who remembered deer there and a pale about it with deerleaps out of Honiley into Fernhill and out of Fernhill into Wedgnock Park. The pale between Fernhill and the park was only a 'footset pale' with no bank, and was thought to have originated when the king's stud was in Fernhill. One of the keepers had charge of Fernhill as part of his walk, and looked after the stud at that time as well as his deer. (fn. 355) The corporation of Warwick, as patrons of the rectories of St. Mary's and Budbrooke, had 13s. 4d. as tithe of the herbage, with two bucks and two does as tithe of the park yearly, and also pasturage for six oxen in the park, valued at £4, for repair of Wedgnock Lane. (fn. 356) Following this survey, Sir Fulke Greville received in 1602 an outright grant of the park, including Fernhill, Goodrest, and the three gamekeepers' lodges, but excluding the inclosures held of the Crown by other tenants, paying yearly the tithe bucks and does and £4 to the corporation and £66 13s. 4d. to the Exchequer. (fn. 357) The disparked inclosures at the southern end of the park descended with the manor of Warwick to the Bolton family. (fn. 358) In 1652, under the name of Wedgnock Park Closes, they contained 435 acres divided into 75 closes between nineteen tenants. (fn. 359)

[…]

Between 1679 and 1682 all the north and west parts of the park were inclosed. New farmhouses were erected on the sites of the present Hill Farm, Turkey Farm, Bulloak Farm, and Deer Park Farm, and on a site close to Fernhill Farm but south of Roundshill Lane. Barns were placed where Bannerhill Farm and Bulloak barn now stand. Goodrest manor-house and a lodge, perhaps that built by Thomas Fisher in 1560, remained within the deer park which also contained a round copse of 20 acres. (fn. 369)

[…]

A large part of Fernhill wood was grubbed up in 1789 and new farm buildings were begun there in 1793. (fn. 370) The last part of this ancient wood was removed by the tenant of the farm in about 1935. (fn. 371)

Footnotes.
257 Kemp, Hist. Warw. 267-8.
258 Ibid. 269-72.
300 Rowington par. recs. C.R.O., N 5/142.
301 Kemp, Hist. Warw. 269-72.
354 L.R. 2/257 f. 172.
355 Castle MS. 2563.
356 L.R.2/257 f. 172.
357 Castle MS. 2561.
358 Ibid. 6128.
359 Ibid. 9204.
369 Castle estate map, 1682.
370 Castle accts. and vouchers, and estate maps, 1750, 1788.
371 Ex inf. Mr. Walder of the Castle Estate Office.”

Offline AlanBoyd

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 01 June 23 17:29 BST (UK) »
Following on from reply #19 in which I identified Richard Henry Smith as the occupant of the west Fern Hill in the 1911 census, I have traced the family back and found that they appeared all the way back to the 1851 census. The 1851 occupant was Richard Smith, father of Richard Henry. Richard Smith is replaced by his widow Mary in 1881, and then by Richard Henry in 1891. The addresses are:

1891 Old Park "Fern Hill Farm"
1881 Fern Hill Old Park
1871 Fern Hill (with Wedgnock Park households on the same page)
1861 Old Park (several households with this "address")
1851 Old Park

In several censuses the farm is stated to be 250 acres.

I suspect that Richard Smith was preceded by a Thomas Payne (wife Elizabeth) but I haven't found him in the 1841 census.
Boyd, Dove, Blakey, Burdon

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Who are these people?
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 01 June 23 18:15 BST (UK) »
The addresses are:

1891 Old Park "Fern Hill Farm"
1881 Fern Hill Old Park
1871 Fern Hill (with Wedgnock Park households on the same page)
1861 Old Park (several households with this "address")
1851 Old Park

That ties in with Post 2 and the reference in the 1930 Electoral Registers to Frederick Stanyer at Fernhill Farm, Old Park, Warwickshire. I suspect the 'Old Park' bit refers to the Wedgnock Park connection. I haven't seen Old Park marked on any map so far.