John and Joseph Withars/Withers c1690

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
Ok so the top line /furthest back we have is -John Withers born c 1660 ,possible wife Sarah buried 7.4.1714 St Martins

There children are John who marries a Mary  ,Benjamin the taylor who marries Sarah Wilkes in 1725  , Sarah  who marries Mathias Southall in 1719 ,Joseph born 1690 who marries Rachel and Thomas born 1695.

Rachel is the daughter in law ,not the daughter and Lydia is the granddaughter.
There may be a connection with the Admin for John Withers in 1681 but it can't be the eldest John born 1660 because his last child was born 1695.It may be his father.

That's the best I can do.

Ciderdrinker

[Ratty2]

Just been going back over my notes and checking against yours:

Benjamin Withers b1713 son of Joseph Withars, a butcher, married Sarah Wilks 1725 and then Elizabeth Guest 1747 followed by 3 children: Joseph (b c1728) Mary (b1753) and John (b1764).

I also have a Benjamin Withers born 1723 in Birmingham, parents Joseph Withars and Rachel Brown, married Sarah Wilks 1725 (no children), Mary Weston 1733 (four children) and Mary Hopkins 1772. There are two children John Withers born Dec 1772 and Richard born May 1774, but both of them have Sarah as their mother, not Mary.

Can't find much info of Mary Hopkins, and no children from Sarah Wilks with Benjamin.

grimace

David

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Let's start with the Benjamin Withers son of Joseph and Rachel nee Green.He's born 1723 so he's not the Benjamin who marries Sarah Wilks in 1725.
I can't find a definite marriage or a burial for him .He was a butcher ,and he was still alive when his brother Joseph made his will in 1761.It looks like he was dead before his sister Lydia made her Will 8.5.1784 ,but there are two possible  burials.
Benjamin withers 31.1.1780 and 13.10.1784 . One is this Benjamin ,the butcher ,the other is his uncle Benjamin the taylor.

So the older Benjamin Withers  born c 1680's s of John and possibly Sarah Withers (wife buried 7.4.1714) The brother of John ,Sarah later Southall ,Joseph born 1790 and Thomas born 1795.

Took on apprentice Edward Dunn 1730 ,Master taylor

He married 1) Sarah Wilks 1725.She died 19.9.1730. (I'm guessing Edward Wilks is her brother)
Children-William 2.2.1727 (who married 18.8.1750 Mary Pitt at Edgbaston )
            Elizabeth 8.5.1730 m 12.7.1752 at Coughton John Fox.

               2)  13.5.1733 St Martins Mary Weston age 22 spinster of St Phillips by licence. Bapt
                 29.8.1711 St Martins d of Edward Weston.
Children Rachel 12.8.1735
            Samuel 13.10.1738 -19.2.1820 Edgbaston m 2.12.1761 Mary Pitt age 22 years St Martins
            Benjamin 20.1.1740-27.1.1740
            John 29.12.1742-10.7.1745
            Benjamin 14.11.1746-21.12.1749

     3) Married 21.9.1747 Elizabeth Guest bapt 29.6.1725 d of Abraham Guest  buried 13.10.1761
           Mary 2.7.1753-1.10.1753
           Joseph 13.3.1758-13.11.1759

     4) 22.4.1772 Mary Hopkins widow of William Hopkins She died died 6 .12.1776 of Aston.

Info not sure which Ben.
17.5. 1767 Benjamin Withers of Birmingham admitted to Bedlam asylum
1774 Poll book Ben Withers and Samuel Withers of Birmingham entitled to vote.

Does that help?

Ciderdrinker

[Ratty2]

Thanks, I think I'm getting there:

You say: "So the older Benjamin Withers born c 1680's s of John and possibly Sarah Withers (wife buried 7.4.1714) [Is also] The brother of John, Sarah (b c1695;  later marry Southall, Joseph born 1790 and Thomas born 1795"  I have Sarah b1695 at Northfield; and I have John born c1690 master tailor.
Joseph born 1790 and Thomas born 1795 seems a bit late; perhaps a typo? Should they be 1675 and 1690?

Re Mary Pitt.
"William 2.2.1727 (who married 18.8.1750 Mary Pitt at Edgbaston )" and you also found  "Samuel 13.10.1738 -19.2.1820 Edgbaston m 2.12.1761 Mary Pitt age 22 years St Martins". I guess that would have been okay because I later found Edward Weston Withers b1762 married Elizabeth Dean in 1801; Elizabeth then married her brother-in-law William (b1767 a butcher) in 1824.

Just to reiterate:
There were three brothers John (who married Sarah, and died 1714) and Benjamin a master tailor bc1680 and Joseph (b c1690) and their sister Sarah who married Southall.

It was John and Sarah whose children incl: Benjamin b1723 a butcher and died c1780.
Benjamin born c1680 the master tailor had 4 marriages:- Sarah Wilks in1725, Mary Weston in 1733, Eliz Guest in 1747 and Mary Hopkins in 1772.

Is that okay

David 

 

[ciderdrinker]

Hi David
Yes the siblings  Benjamin born c 1680 master tailor, John b c1695 ,Sarah and Joseph should be 1690 and Thomas should be 1695.
So 4 brothers and a sister Sarah
The master butcher Benjamin Withers 1723-1780 is the son of Joseph and Rachel Withers nee Green.
So a generation later .

Hope that helps

Ciderdrinker

[Ratty2]

Yes, that's fine.

Too many Benjamins  should have been rationed!

David