Author Topic: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's  (Read 2835 times)

Offline rachtravem

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Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« on: Wednesday 10 May 23 07:49 BST (UK) »
BACKGROUND
My mother's father was Charles Alfred  Frederick Brams, who married the pregnant Evelyn Derrick.
In 2001 my  family in England told me that CAF then found Evelyn was pregnant to another man...so he  "sent her back to live with her father".......which I have verified in Census records...and they were never divorced......and CAF then set up with Alice (Steel/Steele?) ......who then became pregnant.....and gave birth to my mother Doris .
CAF/Alice were never married so  CAF/Alice used his marriage cert to Evelyn, as Alice' entry to the UK hospital  (scam 1) to avoid the unmarried mother birth stigma on Doris' birth cert....which should have been birth mother  Alice..but shows parents CAF and Evelyn (scam2)  My mother never had a birth cert so she never knew about Evelyn as her official "mother".
CAF (and wife and baby) then came to Australia in 1924 on the ship BORDA, using his military passport which named Evelyn as his wife.....when the person with him was actually Alice!!!(scam 3).
Alice was known as Alice Brams in WA (scam 4) and at the Woorooloo Sanitorium (scam 5) where she died, and is buried (scam 6).

There is also the possibility that Evelyn was actually pregnant to him, but he deserted Evelyn after the marriage in favour of Alice....and that the family made up the "other man "story to make CAF to appear less at fault.

If the family story about Evelyn/Alice story is true, then it appears I am related to Alice......but I cannot find a single data item about her because I cant verify if she was really named Steel/Steele.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 08:32 BST (UK) »
Can you tell us when and where Charles Brams was born please?  You say you have census records but give no indication as to years or where Charles was living.

Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline softly softly

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 08:53 BST (UK) »
If Alice travelled as Evelyn May in 1924 she was aged 25. At death she was 37, so Alice has a dob between 1896-1899.

Brams   Alice   F   37   UNKNOWN   UNKNOWN   Wooroloo   1934   Northam   4900094   1934

Brams   Charles Alfred Frederick   M   40   Charles BRAMS   UNKNOWN   Pemberton   1935   Blackwood   500005   193

John

Offline rachtravem

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 09:17 BST (UK) »
Girl Guide, Sorry. Record details
Name   Charles Brams
Age in 1911   15
Estimated Birth Year   1896
Relation to Head   Son
Gender   Male
Civil parish   St Pancras
County/Island   London
Country   England
Street Address   9 Seaton Street, St Pancras
Registration District Number   9
Sub-registration district   West St Pancras
ED, institution, or vessel   04
Piece   655
Household members
Name   Age
Charles Brams   36
Elizabeth Brams   33
Charles Brams   15
David Brams   6
Doris Brams   4
Violet Brams   3


Offline softly softly

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 09:23 BST (UK) »
Another child "seemingly" born to Charles & Evelyn.


Births Dec 1919 
Brams    Harold    Derrick    Holborn    1B   1230a   Died 1983

With his grandparents in 1921 census.

John

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 09:55 BST (UK) »
Interesting, I can't find a birth record for Charles in either 1893 or 1896.  I did wonder if he had lied about his age when joining the army.  He was stated to be 18 years exactly and attested on 21 September 1911.  Surname mangled on birth records or not registered?

I cannot find any Charles on the passenger list so either badly transcribed or missed off.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 10:09 BST (UK) »
I think I've found Charles in the 1921 census name down as Bramo.  Living with his uncle and aunt William and Mary Bennett in Islington plus others.

Charles is married but no wife with him.  Corporal (out of work), age 26 yrs 9 mths.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline rachtravem

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 10:16 BST (UK) »
Fremantle, Western Australia, Passenger Lists, 1897-1963

View imageView record
Record details
Name   Chas Alf Fred Brams
Gender   Male
Birth Date   1895
Departure Place   London, United Kingdom
Arrival Date   4 May 1924
Arrival Place   Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia
Age on Arrival   29
Vessel   Borda

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Re: Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 May 23 10:22 BST (UK) »
Charles Alfred Frederick Brams(Brains?) born 19th Sept 1895. Baptised 13.10.1895, father Charles occ painter & Emily Elizabeth. Abode 37 Storey Street, Islington.

John