Alice Steel/ Steele/ Steed London 1900's

[MonicaL]

Do you think this might be Harold's death?

Deaths 4th Qrt 1983
HAROLD DOUGLAS BRAMS   
Birth date 11 NOV 1919   
SUTTON   
Vol 15/ pg 465

Best way (dream ticket  ) would be a DNA comparison with descendants of Harold and Doris to confirm different mothers (Evelyn and Alice).

Monica

[MonicaL]

Possible marriage for Harold:

Marriages 1st Qrt 1941   
Harold D Brams and Muriel Dunkley   
Surrey S E   
Vol 2a/ pg 1559

At least 3 children showing for them, born in the 1940-50s.

Monica

[mckha489]

Girl Guide posted at #6

“ I think I've found Charles in the 1921 census name down as Bramo.  Living with his uncle and aunt William and Mary Bennett in Islington plus others.

Charles is married but no wife with him.  Corporal (out of work), age 26 yrs 9 mths.”


I wonder if that has any bearing on

She is just plain Alice on the electoral registers though (and her death registration). But her husband didn't use his full names. From the newspapers, he seems to have been known as Harry Brams in Australia.

Another child "seemingly" born to Charles & Evelyn.
Births Dec 1919 
Brams    Harold    Derrick    Holborn    1B   1230a   Died 1983
With his grandparents in 1921 census.

Yes, with the Derricks.
There might be something odd about that birth reg
I cannot get it up on the new GRO index at all.

If you look at the original image, it has been added by hand at the foot of the page. Like some similar examples I have checked out, does this extra "a" entry suggest it is connected to one of the five registrations on the relevant page number?

In Dec 1919 Holborn (1b) page 1230 the only likely one is
Bennett, Harold
mother Bennett

Which comes up on the new index as
BENNETT, HAROLD       
Mother's Maiden Surname: —
GRO Reference: 1919  D Quarter in HOLBORN  Volume 01B  Page 1230  Occasional Copy: A

[mckha489]

Side tracking, nothing to do with Alice…that 1921 census with Charles Brams with his Aunt & Uncle

There is a daughter Elizabeth Bennett who is 13 - her “mother” is 70!   

[MonicaL]

oops 

Evelyn May Brams is showing as a widow on her Probate Death Index entry:

Evelyn May Brams of 27 Hayes Lane Kenley Surrey, widow, died 29 July 1964
Administration London 8 September to Harold Douglas Brams store departamental manager.
£1262

Evelyn, widow, is living with a Samuel Derrick, working as his housekeeper, at the time of the 1939 Register in Surrey. Her birth date shows as 29 Jan 1900.

Monica

[Girl Guide]

I would imagine that was because being a widow would appear more respectable than being a deserted wife.

By 1939 hubby was long gone with the "other" woman.

[Neale1961]

Hubby died in 1935, so she was a widow.

[mckha489]

So Harold Douglas must definitely be her son. Is that what you/we are saying?

[MonicaL]

Looks like it. Whether he was also Charles's son need to be confirmed I think. If the story is true, was Harold the baby that she was pregnant with that resulted in Charles and Evelyn splitting up?

Monica