Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie

[Lucy2]

They'd record his death under his birth name right?

One would hope so     (and more especially as we're having to plough through all the aliases at present ... I mean we deserve an "easy road" when we get to the end of this !!   Don't we ) 

    ~  Lu

[Lucy2]

Will of Johanna MURPHY  >   1938

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE77177174

  ~  Lu

Added:  And Daniel's Will also >
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE75192532

[dragonlady403]

Oh that's interesting.  For some reason I don't have Johanna's will, only Daniel's.  Thanks!

Re Tim... I don't know how to let you down easily:

But I can't find any likely records for his death in anything like a likely timeframe under the name Timothy.  As usual there's lots of Patrick's which I'll have to wade though. 

It's highly unlikely he would have gone back to Aussie, unless he was able to beat his addiction in jail.

If he died in prison, would he have been buried in a prison graveyard? Or transferred out to somewhere like Karori Cemetery (no record of him there).

[Lucy2]

This is what I have...just not sure of a couple of their marriage details which I have been working on.

One of the daughter's mother's name is spelled incorrectly which may be an issue.  But I know she existed and was the oldest (Annie)

Murphy   
Annie 1879/5808   Johannah   Daniel    (The mother's name should be Johanna)
Johanna Ellen 1887-1955 1887/1526
Florence “Florie” 1888-1962  1889/17900   tbc
Catherine Mary Josephine 1883-1936    1883/694
Margaret Agnes 1892-1975  1892/10285

Catherine Mary would have died by 1938...

OK ... can rule out this  ^ Catherine Mary Josephine MURPHY.    Certainly she had parents named "Johanna and Daniel MURPHY" ... BUT her birth is registered in the same year as that of your  Timothy Patrick MURPHY (1883) :

Here are their "deets"  >

1883 / 694 - MURPHY - Catherine Mary Josephine - Parents:  Johanna and Daniel
[Date of Birth - deduced from the NZBDM (online) index =  21 March 1883 - registered at Wanganui :]   This may, or may not, be the lady who married in 1925 to a William Martin SENK ?
 She died (SENK) in 1936 (Hawkes Bay area) - aged 51 (@NZBDM) b.c. 1885 :   Can't find supporting evidence though, for her being the Wanganui birth ?

1883 / 168 - MURPHY - Timothy Patrick - Parents:  Joanna (sic) and Daniel MURPHY:
[His birthdate - deduced from NZ BDM (online) index = 26 February 1883 (not 25th as I think was given on his Army attestation ?? )   [Again, mother's name mis-spelled - but that's not a "biggie" .... we have to allow some leeway when it comes to spelling / transcriptions etc. ]

   ~   Lu

Adding ...  my usual cautionary note ... that just because names appear on family trees (@ancestry etc. etc.)  ... it does NOT guarantee  that the information is correct.     AND the Catherine Mary Josephine MURPHY name is (unfortunately) "hitched up" with a number of "trees" for Timothy Patrick's family.     ]

[dragonlady403]

Ah yes, I see the dilemma.  I think the fact she wasn't listed on Johanna's will might well be another factor to support your theory (as opposed to her having died before Johanna wrote her will).

Also I thought they may have been twins.. but obviously not if the dates are different!

I'm heading out for pizza and beer on a very hot night.  I will do a deep dive into the family records to see what I find on my side of it.

THANKS:)

[Lucy2]

Re Tim... I don't know how to let you down easily:

Nah, nah,  ... "nothing is off the table" ... yet !!!
Patience is the name of this game.   

It's highly unlikely he would have gone back to Aussie, unless he was able to beat his addiction in jail.
If he died in prison, would he have been buried in a prison graveyard? Or transferred out to somewhere like Karori Cemetery (no record of him there).

I agree, he's unlikely to have returned to AUS.

As far as I am aware, there was no "prison graveyard" attached to Mount Crawford Gaol - especially in the era he was last known to have been residing in Wellington.    There was a dedicated Asylum nearby ... also a well-known "Old Men's home"  ... and a rather large Catholic cemetery at Mount Street (not to be confused with Mount Crawford).   Karori Cemetery was Wellington's largest and catered for all denominations, as well as serving charities with pauper-type plots .

A lot of work still to be done to find his resting place.   

    ~  Lu

.... enjoy that pizza ... AND that beer !!!

[Lucy2]

P.S.     Have still to add here the results of " Timothy etc. etc. MURPHY" names which I have been able to eliminate from this search.    

[Lucy2]

Hi Carol
 
... another "treat" for you (after the pizza and beers) ... "treat" may be the wrong word though ?

I've been able to find your Timothy Patrick's death (after a long haul through the Police Gazettes).

There was this entry for 1944 :

MURPHY - Patrick - tried at Wellington on 6 May 1943.   Idle and disorderly (begging) - 14 days :
Born: NZ -- 5ft - 6 1/2" -- fresh complexion / grey hair / blue eyes / broken nose :  Occupation: Labourer :   18 p.c. (prev. convictions)  --   Listing gives same references as before - plus a newer one which mentions another photo (which I'll endeavour to locate ... along with finding his resting place_.

And sadly, ... with his name struck through in green ink ... the words
              Died  19 / 7 / 44 *        *  Actual date of death is 5 July 1944

   ~  Lu

Added:   ^   Needed to correct above date of death as it is printed wrongly in Police Gazette.
Verified in death notice, cemetery details and listing at NZ BDM (date deduced = 5 July 1944 ]

[Lucy2]

NZ BDM (online)

NZ Death Index

1944 / 2247 - MURPHY - Patrick - aged 61 years.     [bc 1883]

Other info to follow >

    ~  Lu