Author Topic: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie  (Read 2435 times)

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 10:12 BST (UK) »
I found an Australian conviction for a Timothy Murphy 10 June 1922 - in Central NSW convicted of 6 months hard labour (with a Patrick Murphy???).  The year of birth fits, as does the general description.

It also states - he has been previously convicted --- which definitely fits.

...   looks like him  ???    ... it's not actually "with Patrick MURPHY ... "  ... that "al" I'm pretty sure represents "alias".   SO this Timothy was using the names "Patrick MURPHY  and John CARNEY" .
 Some more digging to do for sure.   ;D

    ~  Lu

added :

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252092319?searchTerm=Timothy%20Patrick%20Murphy

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 10:37 BST (UK) »

-- I also looked at that arrest for Timothy from Hokitika.. but "our' Timothy was listed as 5.4 in his Australian military medical records.  He had blue eyes and dark brown hair. The guy arrested was listed as 5'8.  I would think that's quite a big height discrepancy....?

Hi Carol

I couldn't find that info on your Timothy's AIF record (there's so much other stuff on those pages).
But on page 16 it states -- Age:  32 & 10 months -- 5ft 6 -1/2" ---  41  chest :

   ~  Lu

Offline dragonlady403

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 16:10 BST (UK) »
Lu...  ::)::) ::) ::) ::)

LOL, I thought the "al" meant "also", but you're right it would mean alias!!!  I've just got to say, the ingenuity, determination, and in some weird way, courage of Tim is astonishing.  If he'd been raised in another family/time - he could have done pretty much anything with his life.  Good grief.

Well that opens up a whole new universe doesn't it!  No wonder I was having so much difficulty tracking him for large chunks of time... he wasn't "him".

Re height - yes you are correct there as well.  There is the height he was recorded at when he enlisted and I recall seeing a the "shorter" one by a medical person later in his service.  I chose the later one because the document seemed more detailed, obviously I should have just gone with the enlistment one.

So, if he is in Wellington prison - it now is quite likely he was operating under aliases there as well.  I guess the Police Gazettes (if issued) would have had him listed under his various aliases until they caught up with him and figured out who he actually was? 

His father died 22 Sept 1921 --- I wonder if that brought Tim back to NZ.

What about court cases - are they available in NZ? Surely, they would have to be under his correct name?

By the way, THANKS TO EVERYONE for contributions to this thread --- every little detail has helped build up his very colourful and busy life!!!!!!!







Johnston - New Zealand; Scotland
Brookes - New Zealand; England
Morris- Liverpool Lancs, UK; New Zealand
Hatter - Wiltshire UK; Otago New Zealand
Ainslie & Strachan - Midlothian, Scotland; New Zealand
Paull -St Agnes, St Columb Minor Parish Cornwall; South Africa; New Zealand
Gould & Reece- Stroud, Gloucestershire UK; New Zealand
Oakly - Australia, NZ; UK
Downes -UK; Australia; NZ
Kinghorn - Jamaica; England; Scotland
Murphy - County Kerry, Ireland; NZ

Offline dragonlady403

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 17:00 BST (UK) »
using the name John Carney - LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!!! 

Look at that list of aliases :o  And, this is listed under his alias of Patrick...

Now you can all see the "reprobate" himself:)

Johnston - New Zealand; Scotland
Brookes - New Zealand; England
Morris- Liverpool Lancs, UK; New Zealand
Hatter - Wiltshire UK; Otago New Zealand
Ainslie & Strachan - Midlothian, Scotland; New Zealand
Paull -St Agnes, St Columb Minor Parish Cornwall; South Africa; New Zealand
Gould & Reece- Stroud, Gloucestershire UK; New Zealand
Oakly - Australia, NZ; UK
Downes -UK; Australia; NZ
Kinghorn - Jamaica; England; Scotland
Murphy - County Kerry, Ireland; NZ


Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 18:32 BST (UK) »
Carol, Carol, Carol ....   :o   .... I don't quite know what to say.   

You've done wonderfully well with your digging !!   :)

There are a couple of other MURPHY - Timothy / Patrick etc. combinations I was "working" through earlier -- one I can discount, and the other, still in progress.   Will add these here shortly.

BUT there's more ...    >  >  >     see next   > > >

   ~  Lu 

 

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 19:01 BST (UK) »
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZPG19311202.2.11.2.51?end_date=31-12-1931&items_per_page=10&query=Patrick+Murphy&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1931

MURPHY, Patrick -- alias MURPHY, Edward -- alias O'SULLIVAN, Patrick -- alias John CARNEY
    .... and photos too.

I'm guessing you've got access to ancestry.com ??     Otherwise ... NZ Police Gazettes can be accessed via our PapersPast website   https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers
> click on the "Magazines and Journals" in top bar.  [Not sure if this gives full coverage of all P.G's. ?]
NZ Police Gazettes also accessible at Archives New Zealand site https://collections.archives.govt.nz/en-GB/web/arena#/
[Helpful if you want to search using specific year/s. ]

Now to dive into newspapers to find the details of the court cases ... I'm sure they'll be there.   ;D

    ~  Lu

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 19:19 BST (UK) »
   masquerading as  ...  Patrick MURPHY

This explains why he is in Mount Crawford Gaol in 1932.   ;)

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19310918.2.70

[There are earlier Magistrate's court appearances for 1931 ... which probably give more detail ? ]

   ~  Lu

Offline dragonlady403

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 19:42 BST (UK) »
just wow!!!

First, well done Lu, for solving the "original" mystery!!! With all this new information, I can start to compile a more complete pic of his "very sorry" life back in NZ.

My next thought was - IN REALITY, Timothy should be considered an "over-achiever"!!!  I mean, really, look at that list of crimes/convictions etc... You have to admit it is impressive:)

He has really aged between the 2 photos.  I was saddened to see the "meths" addiction, but alcoholism was a foregone conclusion so I guess it's just one component of the addiction.

Working my way through all our new "resources" ;)

Johnston - New Zealand; Scotland
Brookes - New Zealand; England
Morris- Liverpool Lancs, UK; New Zealand
Hatter - Wiltshire UK; Otago New Zealand
Ainslie & Strachan - Midlothian, Scotland; New Zealand
Paull -St Agnes, St Columb Minor Parish Cornwall; South Africa; New Zealand
Gould & Reece- Stroud, Gloucestershire UK; New Zealand
Oakly - Australia, NZ; UK
Downes -UK; Australia; NZ
Kinghorn - Jamaica; England; Scotland
Murphy - County Kerry, Ireland; NZ

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Crawford Gaol aka Wellington Prison - and an incorrigible rellie
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 02 May 23 20:04 BST (UK) »
 ...'Morning Carol  (it's probably evening where you are ? )  ...

Have to say I feel very sad about this poor man ... "today" he may have received help for his problems.  :(   

Here he is earlier in 1931 ...   

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19310625.2.33

And you gotta love that comment from the "Beak"  . ;D

Magistrate (to MURPHY)  ... "you have not got a bad record ... one, idle and disorderly and one, drunkeness.      Can you pay a fine ?  "    ;D

    ~  Lu