SULLIVAN - Sacramental Records St Patrick's Cathedral, Auckland

[Kat0011]

Hi Lu
Thank you for clarifying.  The following comments are in the event that someone in the future may come across this posting: 
I have been researching the NZ branches of the Sullivan / O'Sullivan family for over 25 years, so am very conversant with them.  I am presently involved in a DNA research study, with the sole purpose of identifying earlier Irish connections.  Anyone interested would be welcome to contact me.
Chris

Hi Chris

Coincidentally a couple of days ago amongst family paperwork I found the attached marriage certificate (not the original) for George Allen and Mary Hanlan O'Sullivan

[shanreagh]

....
Of course, if you can find a link between these Allens and Fred Allen who played rugby for the All Blacks in the 1940s/1950s (or steer me in the direction to look) that would answer a different question we have 

Fred Allen was not only a player for the All Blacks in the 1940s/50s he was their captain and later coach for the All Blacks.  I think at the time he was the first to be a coach following being an All Black player/Captain.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/6a5/allen-frederick-richard

NB the All Blacks are the NZ players who represent NZ in Rugby, which is a game that is *hugely popular* in NZ.  (*-* This is a slight understatement!)  Writing/speaking in undertstatement is said to be a NZ trait along with this one of connecting to people (connections) who may know or be related to the topic.   

So here goes.....in the either the late 1990s or early 2000s I worked, here in Wellington,  with a woman who was related to Fred Allen in some way.  I understood also that Fred Allen played in an All Blacks team with the late great Charlie Smith from Wairoa Northern HB....Charlie Smith was the husband of my piano teacher back in the 1960s.   

Now how's that for a bunch of connections from a older NZ female who didn't play rubgby!

[Lucy2]

Hi Lu
 .....  Of course, if you can find a link between these Allens and Fred Allen who played rugby for the All Blacks in the 1940s/1950s (or steer me in the direction to look) that would answer a different question we have 

Hi again Kat

  Yes, may be able to help sort this,  but would like for you to supply details firstly for your George ALLEN (later apparently known as "George Josiah ALLEN").

- George, born Sydney ?? ... is that correct ?

- Confirmation of George's father's name
[Noting that NZ Marriage cert. copy, shows father as "Jos. " - which could represent either "Joseph or Josiah" ??  ]

- Father's birthplace ?

Question:    Why do you think there may be a link to New Zealand's "Fred ALLEN" (akaSir Frederick Richard ALLEN")  ?

   ~    Lu

[Kat0011]

Hi Lu
 .....  Of course, if you can find a link between these Allens and Fred Allen who played rugby for the All Blacks in the 1940s/1950s (or steer me in the direction to look) that would answer a different question we have 

Hi again Kat

  Yes, may be able to help sort this,  but would like for you to supply details firstly for your George ALLEN (later apparently known as "George Josiah ALLEN").

- George, born Sydney ?? ... is that correct ?

- Confirmation of George's father's name
[Noting that NZ Marriage cert. copy, shows father as "Jos. " - which could represent either "Joseph or Josiah" ??  ]

- Father's birthplace ?

Question:    Why do you think there may be a link to New Zealand's "Fred ALLEN" (akaSir Frederick Richard ALLEN")  ?

   ~    Lu

Hi Lu

I have no further details about George Josiah Allen - other than I 'believe' he was born in Chippendale, a suburb of Sydney. Then moved to NZ and in early 1890s he definitely had Allendale House built at 50 Ponsonby Road Ponsonby. Then moved back to Australia with his wife and children in the early 1900s

I had thought that there might have been some older Allen children remaining in NZ who might have been related to Sir Frederick Allen however with further research it doesn't appear so. My dodgy Googling since my previous post indicates that GJ Allen returned to Australia with his wife and all his children

The family lived at Randwick, a suburb of Sydney, where they built a new Allendale home on Alison Road Randwick. GJ Allen's two daughters married two Veech brothers. Just to add some randomness in - both those brothers were from a country town in NSW called Wellington  One of the family farms at Wellington NSW was called Remuera!

GJ Allen's daughter Anne Margaret Allen (known as Tottie), married Dr Michael Stanislaus Veech. They were my Great Grandparents

[shanreagh]

I'm confused. 

So is there, or not, a link from your George J Allen with Fred Allen? 

Because the Fred Allen the NZ rugby player/coach extraordinaire did leave/have relations here in NZ.  I feel my female workmates would not be unilaterally claiming this kinship (rugby was NOT something we spoke of at our female workplace, except as here on a connection level). Allen is a relatively common name in NZ.    There are/were definite and different families of Allen and Allan for instance in the township I grew up in.

[Kat0011]

I'm confused. 

So is there, or not, a link from your George J Allen with Fred Allen? 

Because the Fred Allen the NZ rugby player/coach extraordinaire did leave/have relations here in NZ.  I feel my female workmates would not be unilaterally claiming this kinship (rugby was NOT something we spoke of at our female workplace, except as here on a connection level). Allen is a relatively common name in NZ.    There are/were definite and different families of Allen and Allan for instance in the township I grew up in.

Hi. As previously indicated, I was hoping to find a link between the two. However my rough searches indicate there is not one

As you say there are different families of Allen in NZ. I am not saying your work colleague was lying at all. I have no idea who she is or her ancestry. So I am the one confused