David THOMAS

[Chrissie46]

Thank you everyone for your input.  This is what I do know - my 2 gt grandfather Thomas Thomas born in Wales about 1839 married Mary Matthews in 1868 in Swansea.  Mary had a daughter Mary Anne (Morris) from a previous relationship.  Then they had my maternal grandfather Evan - a son David and a daughter Sarah and they all came to Australia under the name Thomas on the "Star of India" in 1876.  See attached record.  They had another son in Australia - Thomas John who was known as John.  Thomas Thomas may have been married to a Jane Owen C1861 before Mary.

1871 Census they were living at Banwell St, Llangafelach, Morriston, Swansea.

The supposed rest is that his father was David Thomas and mother Sarah Evans.  1851 census has them living at Bryntwad Street, Llangafelach, Swansea.

Many thanks Chrissie46

[mckha489]

Thank you everyone for your input.  This is what I do know - my 2 gt grandfather Thomas Thomas born in Wales about 1839 married Mary Mathews in 1868 in Swansea.

What does the 1868 marriage certificate say about Thomas. Ie is he a bachelor or a widower?  Who were the witnesses? 

[Chrissie46]

I am unable to pin down the marriage certificate - all I have is the BDM search results details.

Thomas Thomas -  District Swansea - 1868 Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar Volume 11A  Page No. 665

And Mary Matthews - Swansea - 1868 - same quarter Volume and page no.  I realized I have been spelling Matthews incorrectly.  My apologies.

Thanks Chrissie46

[mckha489]

You might have to buy the marriage certificate then.
That will hold information about his father given by Thomas himself, as well as his status and names of witnesses.

You order it from 
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Unfortunately they don’t do PDFs of marriage certs so you will have to wait for snail mail.  (We had a Christmas card arrive here (NZ)  on 7th March that was posted on 11th December.  Longer than it took a sailing ship to get here in the 19th century!   A better plan is to have it sent to a friend or relation in the UK and then have them Scan or photograph it.

[softly softly]

Based on the last reply from chrissie46, 1861 census,

Piece:   5447
Folio:   21
Page number:   35

Thomas Thomas   34   Head  Swansea
Mary Thomas 34   Wife
Sarah Thomas 12   Daughter  born Michaelston   (Comes under Neath reg dist)
Evan Thomas 3   Son


THOMAS, SARAH  ANN     mmn OWEN 
GRO Reference: 1859  S Quarter in OF NEATH  Volume 11A  Page 422

Possible marriage

Owen    Jane        Neath    11a   705    
Thomas    Thomas    Neath    11a   705    

This marriage certificate may also hold useful information.

John

[Cas (stallc)]

Burial looks a good possible as maybe buried Michaelston with mother.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/MichaelstonSuperAvon

Address given at death was Morristown also recorded as imbecile in 1871 census, (meaning learning difficulties today). Birthplace given as Glamorgan. But as John has posted likely birth reg it would be Michaelston, also the birthplace given in 1861 census.

Death was registered Swansea.  Michaelston different area (As mentioned - Neath)
THOMAS, SARAH  ANN     age 14 
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in SWANSEA  Volume 11A  Page 399

Burial
Sarah Ann Thomas
Death Age:   14
Birth Date:   1859
Death Date:   abt 1873
Burial Date:   21 Jan 1873
Abode: Morristown (as spelt)
Burial Place:   Michaelston-Super-Avon, Glamorganshire, Wales
Page number:   63

Explains why she was also not on the passenger list, also a possibility they named their own daughter after her?

THOMAS, SARAH  HANNAH     mmn MATTHEWS 
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in SWANSEA  Volume 11A  Page 655

Few deaths around age group registered for wife Jane Thomas in Neath 1861 - 1868. Looking at census she was born around 1835 some of her family are living Davies Row same address as Thomas Thomas & family 1861.  A possible for death is 1866 age 30 registered Neath, just a maybe.

Cas

[Cas (stallc)]

Thank you for your reply.  This is my problem, I am unable to define which David Thomas is m 3 gt grandfather.  I know his son was Thomas Thomas B 6/6/1839 in Wales -

Are you sure about his father being named David? As there is this baptism that matches the date of birth you gave, 6th June, but birth year out. If not sure you need to obtain marriage cert to move forward, knowing you have correct family.

Thomas Thomas
Baptism Age:   0
Birth Date:   6 Jun 1834
Baptism Date:   29 Jun 1834
Baptism Place:   Swansea St Mary, Glamorganshire, Wales
Father:   John - occupation: tailor
Mother:   Mary
Page number:   143

1851 - Swansea St Mary.  The above Thomas age 16 with parents & siblings.
Piece: 2466, Folio: 70, Page Number: 57

1841 - Swansea, age 7 with parents & siblings
Piece:1426, Book: 7, Folio: 16, Page number: 23

Mother is Mary Owen going by likely birth reg of children. There is also this marriage.

John Thomas - Mary Owen
Marriage Date: 10 Sep 1832
Marriage Place: Swansea St Mary, Glamorganshire
Page 27

Cas

[nestagj]

I am unable to pin down the marriage certificate - all I have is the BDM search results details.

You will need to apply to the GRO for the marriage certificate.    The one you mention is the only Thomas / Matthews marriage in 1868.  This is the only way you're going to get a definitive answer as regards his father (and as a bonus her father too !)

Nesta

[softly softly]

I am unable to pin down the marriage certificate - all I have is the BDM search results details.

You will need to apply to the GRO for the marriage certificate.    The one you mention is the only Thomas / Matthews marriage in 1868.  This is the only way you're going to get a definitive answer as regards his father (and as a bonus her father too !)

Nesta

both marriage certificates would be very helpful to compare fathers details and occupations.


june quarter 1859
Owen    Jane        Neath    11a   705   
Thomas    Thomas    Neath    11a   705   

John