PERRY Armagh>Lorneville,NB-Sisters?

[sarah.negus84]

Seeking information on the ancestry of three PERRY women b.in Ireland and immigrated to Lorneville,Saint John,N.B.,Canada in the early 1800s:

Agnes "Nancy" Perry b.1805 Armagh,d.April 6,1891 Lorneville;md.John McKNIGHT b.1802,d.June 5,1876 "" (also curious as to where the McKnights originated);

Jane (1811-1871);md.John STINSON/STEVENSON b.abt.1800,d.1874 "" (apparently came from Kilkeel,Co.Down);

Helen b.1802,d.April 27,1856 "";1st w/o Thomas GALBRAITH b.1798,d.December 25,1890 "". (Galbraiths are from Kilkeel but I do not yet have an indication of Thomas's parents;it's possible he could be a brother of John Galbraith who is a 5x g-grandfather).

I wonder if the three could be sisters,they all seem to be close enough in age. As of yet,Nancy is the only one for which I have found a place of birth (ref:New Brunswick Newspaper Vital Statistics,PANB).

[shanreagh]

 I am assuming that these three all had Perry as their maiden surname?  That this has been verified by looking at marriage records/travel documents?

Have you looked at the marriage records for the three women?  If so what are the names of the parents?

Do any of the descendants (starting with the children of the these three women)  have similar names to the names of the parents? 

It is usually better to step back logically by examining the records of the children/grandchildren back to the people.

Are there records of the arrival of the three into the place they were married? 

ETA the Irish did have naming patterns that they followed.....sometimes.
The Irish naming pattern is as follows:

1st son is named after the father’s father.
2nd son is named after the mother’s father.
3rd son is named after the father.
4th son is named after the father’s eldest brother.
 
1st daughter is named after the mother’s mother.
2nd daughter is named after the father’s mother.
3rd daughter is named after the mother.

I say 'sometimes' as many of the irish I have tracked some times show a bit of independence in naming (why am I not surprised?)
So I have found children names for the maiden surname of the mother, the maiden surname of the father's mother, and in my family the surname of a well regarded Anglican vicar who was also some distant connection.

[sarah.negus84]

Yes,all three are maiden names (if they were married prior,I have no record). I cannot find marriage records as they all would have been in the very early 1800s and in Ireland.

I can list the children that I have info on (please keep in mind that this is not a complete list):

Children of Thomas and Helen (Perry) GALBRAITH:

Samuel (1824-December 21,1845) (may have d.unmarried)
"Squire" James (1831-June 18,1905);md.Ellen GALBRAITH d/o John Galbraith and Mary Austin of Kilkeel)
John;md.Eliza KNOX b.1839 d/o William Knox and Jane Eliza McLaren
Henry "Henry on the Ridge"

Children of John and Jane (Perry) STINSON/STEVENSON:

Sarah (March 10,1832-May 5,1905);md.John GALBRAITH b.1831,d.1894 (he was s/o James Galbraith and Isabella Ewart and the nephew of Ellen above)
William (1836-1878);md.Martha WILSON
Margaret Caroline (1845-May 19,1897);md.Samuel Ewart GALBRAITH b.1838,d.January 5,1932 (John's brother)
John Oliver (1847-January 4,1932);md.Sarah Jane MANNETTE
Mary Elizabeth (1854-);md.Alexander McALLISTER


Children of John and Agnes "Nancy" (Perry) McKNIGHT:

David (1828-1867);poss.md.Ruth Ann WARK
Sarah (1830-1897);md.Stephen McCAVOUR s/o Hugh McCavour and Jane Floyd
William (1847-June 3,1909);md.Elizabeth DEAN b.1848,d.1919 d/o Robert Dean and Anna Nowlan
Frances Martin (1849-1931);md.William Thompson CUNNINGHAM s/o Samuel Cunningham and Eleanor Beane
Ellen;md.Charles McCAVOUR

[eileenwilson]

Is Nancy the Nancy McKnight who died 6 April 1891 in St. John?  If so, her birthplace is given as Co. Down, and she was a Presbyterian.  As her birth predates civil registration by many years, you will be looking for church records, many of which no longer exist.

https://archives.gnb.ca/search/VISSE/141C4.aspx?culture=en-CA&guid=66666489-5777-41ca-898f-73bf4d5dfef4

1871 Census shows another child for Jane Stinson:

Stinson, John, born Ireland, aged 75, farm & fish
Stinson, Jane, born Ireland, aged 60
Stinson, Mary, born NB, aged 16
Stinson, Martha, born NB, aged 19

John Stinson's entry at Find-a-Grave indicates he was also from Co. Down. If they were married in Ireland, then Jane is also likely from Down.

[eileenwilson]

In looking at some of the children from the three couples, it seems that the first couple were born in Ireland; ie, James Galbraith indicates born in Ireland on death certificate, so if you know where the Galbraiths were from, you might find your Perrys as well.

[gaffy]

It might be worth looking through the surnames section of Ros Davies' County Down website for inspiration, for example:

- Perry: https://www.rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/P/Perry.htm
- Galbraith: https://www.rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/G/GabGan.htm

Home page:
https://www.rosdavies.com/index.html

[sambrookrj]

My Grandmother was a Perry from Kilkeel and there are still Perrys in Kilkeel.

There are no census records for Ireland prior to 1901 as they were destroyed in Dublin by fire in 1922 along with the Church of Ireland records. The Perrys were members of the Mourne Presbyterian Church and records were not kept before 1839/40 also the Kilkeel Presbyterian Church has no records before 1840. Civil marriage records started 1845, births and deaths 1865.
By not having these records it makes it nearly impossible to tie the various Perry families together in Kilkeel.

I have a DNA match with the McCavours (known in Kilkeel as McCaver or McAver) family of Lorneville posslibly through the McKnights or William Perry and his wife Jane Moore who also lived in Lorneville and was from Kilkeel whose daughter Elizabeth married James McCavour in 1858.

Have you read Shane Galbraith's 'The History of Lorneville and First Families?'

[sarah.negus84]

My Grandmother was a Perry from Kilkeel and there are still Perrys in Kilkeel.

There are no census records for Ireland prior to 1901 as they were destroyed in Dublin by fire in 1922 along with the Church of Ireland records. The Perrys were members of the Mourne Presbyterian Church and records were not kept before 1839/40 also the Kilkeel Presbyterian Church has no records before 1840. Civil marriage records started 1845, births and deaths 1865.
By not having these records it makes it nearly impossible to tie the various Perry families together in Kilkeel.

I have a DNA match with the McCavours (known in Kilkeel as McCaver or McAver) family of Lorneville posslibly through the McKnights or William Perry and his wife Jane Moore who also lived in Lorneville and was from Kilkeel whose daughter Elizabeth married James McCavour in 1858.

Have you read Shane Galbraith's 'The History of Lorneville and First Families?'

I have not,has it been published? I wonder if the SJ library would have a copy. When my grandfather died back in 2014,I managed to salvage some of the books from the house,one of which was Eloise Hagerman's book on Lorneville. She was a descendant of Stephen and Sarah (McKnight) McCavour;Sarah was the sister of William and d/o John and Nancy (Perry) McKnight.

Eileen,my Galbraiths were from Kilkeel. However,as Sam had said,the records are nonexistent,which is why I had to post my query here. And yes,Nancy is the one who d.April 6,1891.

[shanreagh]

My Grandmother was a Perry from Kilkeel and there are still Perrys in Kilkeel.

There are no census records for Ireland prior to 1901 as they were destroyed in Dublin by fire in 1922 along with the Church of Ireland records.
...

Not quite correct. (and a bit gloomy and pessimistic)

There are various census fragments and these can be seen on the National Archives  site.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/

There are also what are called census substitutes and these are also mentioned on that site.

Griffiths Valuation and Tithe Applotments.

There are often the local equivalents of what Bill Macafee has done for Co Londonderry and North Antrim.

http://www.billmacafee.com/

You might have to work a bit harder and across several data sets but you can get back.  In the North, with its Plantation history, there are increasingly digitised records of the Guilds that were offered land that they then leased out.  In the South I have seen refs to records to incursions from Cromwell's army and the lands that were offered to those who were part of this. 

The rule of thumb I operate with is to put the names of my families into any database covering anything anywhere in Ireland.  This is easier, obviously, with uncommon names