Sheila Elizabeth Francis ( Nee Gibson) 1922 - 1995

[Cas (stallc)]

There is only one death listed for a Cyril Edward in England & Wales from 1941 when married. Birthdate would fit with birth registration. But death could have been registered without middle name.

Deaths Sep Q 1982   
FRANCIS    CYRIL EDWARD    birth 7 AP 1911    MAIDSTONE    16   1155

What info do you have that he died in WW2, did Sheila remarry?

Cas

[Schoch]

Sheila was my mother and she married my father ( Fredrick William Schoch) in 1947.  She had a complicated life ..3 husbands, 6 children to the 3 men. 
She had her 1st son Micheal John Francis in 1943.  So obviously I am trying to find out what happened to her 1st husband Cyril.  She never spoke of him but implied that he was killed in WW11, hence this post.
While I have now added more family members I still have no idea where Cyril went.  Strange I can trace some branches of my tree to the 1700’s but can not solve this one.

[Cas (stallc)]

Interestingly...

Have just search GRO for the name Cyril Edward Francis born J Qtr 1911 all areas (same as death date).

Only one other same name born Monmouthshire and he had names Cyril Edward Morgan Francis

I wonder if the death is your man? Possibly the marriage did not work as there was an age difference she was very young.  Possibly look for a divorce?

Cas

[Cas (stallc)]

Looks like it is not a possibility to research as after 1937 less than 0.2% divorce cases survived

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/

I think to likely confirm if Cyril fathered your brother it would be the DNA route with him or a child/grandchild of his.

Thread on WW2 records. Although there was mention that some would be moved to NA in near future.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0

Hope this helped and you find your answers

Good luck

Cas

[Schoch]

Thanks for the information in your last 2 posts.  I do not think Sheila divorced as her marriage cert shows “widow” when she wed my father.
So I have to search further to find Cyril’s death, if such a record exists that is.

[nestagj]

Hello

Been following with interest; just a bit of a warning.  The information on a marriage certificate is only as good as the informant, as no proof was required.  She may have been divorced or even still married when she married her second husband.
Nesta

[Schoch]

That I never considered !!!
Food for thought there.

But I still need to identify Cyril’s family (and tree) to try a DNA approach.  If this was an ancient member of my tree I would most likely leave it as another “wall”.  But this is a Step Father and any other children he had are my 1/2 siblings.

If Sheila lied on her marriage cert then the only way I can see to prove (or not) is to find Cyril. If he died in the war then she told the truth. If he lived then she may have told a “porky pie”, and even been married to 2 men at once.
(Sounds like a movie plot)

Richard

[Ladyhawk]

There is only one death listed for a Cyril Edward in England & Wales from 1941 when married. Birthdate would fit with birth registration. But death could have been registered without middle name.

Deaths Sep Q 1982   
FRANCIS    CYRIL EDWARD    birth 7 AP 1911    MAIDSTONE    16   1155

For info.

Cyril Edward Francis of Postley Rd Maidstone
Died 18 Jun 1982 Maidstone Probate 14 Aug 1984 Ipswich

Well the digital copy of the wedding cert has arrived.

Confirmed Cyril Edward Francis (Corporal), 30yrs, married Sheila Elizabeth Gibson (18) 1 May 1941.
His father was John Percival Francis (Hotel Porter).

They were both posted at an RAF base at St Athan. (near Cardiff, Wales.) Also if he held the rank of Corporal then he was not in the Royal Artillery as he would have been a Bombadier.

So more "digging" ahead to identify his death date.

Have you tried searching in the London Gazette there maybe mention of when Cyril was promoted to Corporal.

I don't know this link will be of any help https://www.forcesreunited.co.uk/units/689/raf-st-athan/12

Some history RAF St Athan opened on 1 September 1938 and the first unit to take up residence was No. 4 School of Technical Training..........World War Two the station had over 14,000 personnel, and was used for training ground and air crew.... https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/stations/mod-st-athan/

You probably have this already but just in case you don't......

UK, Absent Voter Lists, 1918-1925, 1939
John Percival Francis
Rank:   Gnr
Electoral Date:   1919
Electoral Place:   London Borough of Islington
Regiment:   284 Sge Bty, RGA
Service Number:   93833
Address 157 Huddleston Road 

John Percival and Beatrice Eleanor Francis on London ER 1920/1922 at the above address

John Percival Francis
Military Year:   1914-1920
Rank:   Gunner
Regiment or Corps:   Royal Garrison Artillery
Regiment Number:   93833
Medal Awarded:   British War Medal and Victory Medal

There is a Cyril Edward Francis living at 80 Gladsmuir Road Upper Holloway Islington
other surnames at same address - Pinckney & Tully year 1936
The Pinckney are at that address in 1935, 1937 and 1939 but Cyril is not with them

Looks like mother possibly died 1926?

Deaths Mar Q 1926   
Francis    Beatrice E    43    Islington    1b   230

Beatrice Eleanor Francis
Register Type:   Burial
Burial or Cremation Date:   11 Mar 1926
Burial or Cremation Place:   Islington, London
from deceased online

[Ladyhawk]

Ward or Division/Constituency:   Southgate South
County or Borough:   Finchley,
Parliamentary County of Middlesex year 1945
Service Register
Index letters S = Seaman W = War Worker L = Indicated Local Government Elector only
Where there is no index letter printed the elector is a member of the Forces
Cyril Edward Francis, address Sutton Rd

Years 1946 & 47 same address Sutton Rd
Cyril E Francis
Beatrice Francis
Walter M Francis
Is this Cyril Edward Francis with his brother Walter Montrose Francis & sister in law?

Did Walter marry a Burden ? There's a Burden with them from 1948

EDIT to add Cyril is not with them from 1948 onwards Walter and Beatrice are still at that address in 1965