Sheila Elizabeth Francis ( Nee Gibson) 1922 - 1995

[Talacharn]

On the Commonwealth War Memorials website there is only one listed:
CYRIL FRANCIS . Gunner . Service Number: 958467
25 Field Regt. Royal Artillery United Kingdom
Died 21 June 1942 . 24 years old (Born 1918)
Buried or commemorated at ALAMEIN MEMORIAL . Column 35 . Egypt
Son of Kendrick and Lily Francis, of Wrexham, Denbighshire.

In 1921, Cyril Francis . 1918 . Wrexham, Denbighshire and he seems to still be in Wrexham in 1939.

The marriage certificate is required first to establish his father’s name. He may not have been telling the truth about his age. Unless he was born in Plymouth, the date of birth and middle name do not fit. Then it is finding his birth. As I said before, you may need the information/document to access his war records, though technically you are not related to him, which could be another issue.

[Schoch]

It has been ordered. So hopefully it provides the detail Ib need to sort this out.

Richard

[Schoch]

Well the digital copy of the wedding cert has arrived.

Confirmed Cyril Edward Francis (Corporal), 30yrs, married Sheila Elizabeth Gibson (18) 1 May 1941.
His father was John Percival Francis (Hotel Porter).

They were both posted at an RAF base at St Athan. (near Cardiff, Wales.) Also if he held the rank of Corporal then he was not in the Royal Artillery as he would have been a Bombadier.

So more "digging" ahead to identify his death date.


Thanks for the guidance.


Richard

[Cas (stallc)]

May not help with death or military details but here are his likely parents info.

FRANCIS, CYRIL  EDWARD  mmn MACKENZIE 
GRO Reference: 1911  J Quarter in ISLINGTON  Volume 01B  Page 143

Marriages Jun Q 1905   same page with others
FRANCIS    John Percival        Eastbourne    2b   164    
Mackenzie    Beatrice        Eastbourne    2b   164    

1911 they are in Islington, both b 1883, no children with them, John Percival is a hotel valet

1921 free index - Cyril Edward Francis b1911 Islington, living Islington, London, Middlesex

Cyril Edward, Beatrice Eleanor, John Percival and 1 other are on this record

Some history. Maybe he was RAF?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOD_St_Athan

Just for info Bridgend registration district would cover St Athan, maybe they met there?

Also if they married May 1941 and son born Jan 1942 there would be only around 9 mths between, not a lot of time for meeting another potential father. Just a thought....

Cas

[Schoch]

Thanks ,

On the button thanks.  Now I have to find what happened to Cyril, did he die in the war or not.
Still need to locate his military record (maybe RAF) to see if he could be the natural father to Michael Francis.

The 1911 census shows 2 children, one still alive, wonder where the living one is (is he Cyril), or was Cyril born later in the year?  Questions I have plenty... answers not so much  LOL

Ain’t this fun 

[Cas (stallc)]

1911 census was taken 2nd April,  Cyril born A/M/J Qtr that year.

There is this birth, he is in electrol for Islington 1930s. No idea if related to Cyril.

FRANCIS, WALTER  MONTROSE     mmn MACKENZIE 
GRO Reference: 1908  S Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 124

Cas
 
   

[Schoch]

Thanks Cas,

Yes I saw that name (Walter Montrose) before but not the mmn of Mackenzie.  So it looks as John Percival and his wife had at least 3 children, one of whom died before the 1911 census, and Cyril born later that year.
Filling in the family nicely now thanks to everyone's help.
Just need to find death details for Cyril, but that is a very common combination of names so the search is slow I think.



Richard

[Cas (stallc)]

Just checked 1921 free index he is brother to Cyril

Walter Montrouce, Beatrice Eleanor, Cyril Edward and 1 other are on this record

I have no idea about military records. WW2 records would still be with the MOD?  Have you tried searching electrol for him?

Added: Looks like mother possibly died 1926?

Deaths Mar Q 1926   
Francis    Beatrice E    43    Islington    1b   230

Cas

[Schoch]

Yes funny enough just going through those now.  Seems to be a few of them.

Thanks