Author Topic: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...  (Read 3799 times)

Offline MarisN6815

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Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« on: Sunday 08 January 23 10:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi and thanks for allowing me to join the group!

This is a bit of a conundrum so I'll try to keep brief and relevant... I'd be grateful for any thoughts or advice.

My partner (OH) and I have both tested on 23andme and Ancestry and then uploaded to MyHeritage. We are from the UK. My parents are both also tested on Myheritage. I have known since being a teenager that my dad was adopted. OH discovered that his dad wasn't who he thought it was about 4 years after him and his sister both did DNA tests. Although my dad had his bio mum's name, he knew nothing about his bio dad. However, I believe I have found my dad's birth family following hours of research. OH also now knows his bio father after his mum eventually gave him a name which was confirmed by DNA matches.

A few weeks ago, something prompted me to look for OH's bio dad in family trees on Ancestry. He's listed in a few trees most of which are private but one public tree caught my eye so I looked to see the connection. However, the person who had created the tree was a DNA match to me! This got me curious so we checked OH's matches and again she was a match to him. In both cases, this person is a distant (5th-8th cousin). We uploaded our samples to Gedmatch and discovered that we share a small amount of DNA (7.1cm) which I realise could be coincidental. We checked our matches on all 3 sites and we are not coming up as matches for each other. However, OH is a match to my dad sharing 12.7cm.

Having downloaded match data from 23andme and MyHeritage and using the highlight duplicates function, we have now found a number of shared matches between myself and OH. The most interesting of these shared matches is FG on MyHeritage. FG's tree is private but they are based in the US. FG and I share 56.1cm across 6 segments with the largest being 15.5cm. OH and FG share 80.9cm across 8 segments with the largest being 20.9cm. Based on these it would appear that FG is a fairly close relative of both OH and I. However (and this is the bit I really cannot understand), FG is not a shared match with either of my parents although FG and I do have a number of matches in common with my dad. How could this be possible? Surely if FG is a match for me, they should also be a match to one of my parents? I realise it is possible to share DNA and not be related but the total amount and number of segments both OH and I share with FG surely make this unlikely. I have been going round in circles for the last few days and have considered all sorts of possibilities including contamination of the samples! I would note that I also have another match on Myheritage who I share 52cm across 5 segments (largest 25cm) who is also not a match to either parent.

Can anyone help shed any light on this? Many thanks in advance and thanks for reading this long post!

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 January 23 22:02 GMT (UK) »
Its a small world.

Made smaller by DNA.

My Wife and I share two DNA matches with each other and yet we have do not share any DNA between ourselves.

It also turns out the two of her Facebook friends are both distant Cousins of mine.

Offline degenerate

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #2 on: Monday 09 January 23 00:01 GMT (UK) »
Roberta Estes has published lots of useful guidance. This page should help:

 https://dna-explained.com/2015/05/14/parent-child-non-matching-autosomal-dna-segments/

"In plain English, this means that in this case, 12% and 13% of these matches were identical by chance, or false matches.  These matches included people who shared up to 57cM of data and the largest block was 15cM."

I would also suggest comparing the kits on the same platform, like GedMatch.
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Offline phil57

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #3 on: Monday 09 January 23 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Also follow the link to "How phasing works..." in the article quoted by degenerate. Autosomal genealogy tests are not phased (albeit Ancestry are now trying to guestimate phasing with Sideview) but it shows how it is easily possible for false matches to be declared when segment lengths appear identical, although the results are actually zig-zagging between the nucleotides in each position.

The chances of false matches due to that rise below about 15-20cM match lengths in individual segments, and increase significantly as match lengths decrease further.

So an overall match of 57cM across a single segment is far more reliable than an overall match of 57cM across several segments, some or all of which may each be below 15cM.
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Offline Petros

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #4 on: Friday 13 January 23 11:05 GMT (UK) »
My wife and I are distantly related 4C2R/6C2R from a shared ancestor born in 1751 (about 4 cM from GEDMatch). My wife being descended from his daughter. We have yet to find any matches that match both of us but she has a number of matches descended from the aforementioned daughter and I have one!

Offline phil57

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #5 on: Friday 13 January 23 12:38 GMT (UK) »
My wife and I are distantly related 4C2R/6C2R from a shared ancestor born in 1751 (about 4 cM from GEDMatch). My wife being descended from his daughter. We have yet to find any matches that match both of us but she has a number of matches descended from the aforementioned daughter and I have one!

As long as you are 100% certain about that from the paper trail. A match length of 4cM has a substantially higher probability of being false (identical by chance etc.) than a genuine match.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can rely on a single 4cM match length between two individuals as proof of anything.

I have just repeated an experiment I did some time ago, almost certainly with different people, as I have no way of remembering the identities of the ones I chose previously.

Search online for GEDmatch kit numbers at random, for people that you have never heard of and have no known connection to. The first one that I found just now was to a woman in Galway. I then did an Autosomal One to One comparison between my kit and hers on GEDmatch, having set the included minimum segment length to 3cM. We share 7 segments at between 3.0 and 3.9 cM, and one at 5.4 cM.

The second one I found at random was to a man in Italy. A One to One comparison with the same settings reports that we share 10 segments between 3.0 and 4.7cM.

Third attempt was with another male randomly picked from a google search, who lives in Philadelphia. 9 shared segments between 3.0 and 4.7cM again.

I have no known connections to Ireland, Italy or Philadelphia in my direct lines of descent, have never heard of the three people I chose, nor do I recognise their surnames. I just found them randomly via Google by searching for GEDmatch kit numbers.

Another that I had saved; a man with the same surname as my paternal grandmother, and who claims to be descended from my 6X GGF in Somerset. He was of interest because his tree goes back to a family in Shepton Mallet, where he asserts that my GX6 GGF was born, whereas all my research indicates that he was born in a small village still in Somerset, but some distance away, to a family who had lived in that village since at least the 15th century, although I don't have a direct and proven line back that far! But nothing in my family back to c. 1700 indicates any link to a direct ancestor in or from Shepton Mallet. Nevertheless there are a lot of families with the same surname all over Somerset. We share 6 segments between 3.0 and 4.6cM.

Whilst we could be related even further back, my conclusion is that our "match" is just random noise, and no evidence of anything. That is why most testing companies set their minimum match lengths to around 6-7cM for showing matches, including the default setting for the One to One Comparison tool on GEDmatch. Even at that level, the probability is that up to half of them are likely to be false matches.

I did read somewhere that if you set the minimum match length at 3cM, you are more likely than not to find at least one matching segment to virtually any other person on the planet, via autosomal matching, purely as a result of chance rather than any genuine relationship.
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Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline Petros

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 07:34 GMT (UK) »
Phil, yes my match to my wife is shown by the paper trail. fortunately the key individuals both had rare surnames simplifying the verification of the paper trail.

Offline phil57

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Phil, yes my match to my wife is shown by the paper trail. fortunately the key individuals both had rare surnames simplifying the verification of the paper trail.

That's good then. But unless you can get the match's DNA into a chromosome browser, along with yours and your wife's for comparison, without being able to match the chromosome positions I wouldn't regard the 4cM match as proof of anything. I'm not saying that it isn't, but without that level of verification, it is just as, if not more likely to be false than true, for you particularly.

You would need to get all three kits onto GEDmatch I think to do that, as My Heritage wouldn't even show a match at that level, and I don't think FTDNA allow it either.

If your match hasn't got his kit on GEDmatch and can't be persuaded to upload it, you can at least place yours and your wife's there and run a one-to-one comparison between you both.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline melba_schmelba

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Re: Partner and I are distant cousins! Strange anomalies...
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 February 23 18:58 GMT (UK) »
We uploaded our samples to Gedmatch and discovered that we share a small amount of DNA (7.1cm) which I realise could be coincidental. We checked our matches on all 3 sites and we are not coming up as matches for each other. However, OH is a match to my dad sharing 12.7cm.
Which samples did you upload? Any GSA based kit i.e. 23andme 2017-, MyHeritage and FTDNA 2019- gives a very high % of false matches below about 50cM because there is such a low overlap with the GEDMATCH SNPs which is based on the original FTDNA SNPs. You would need to make a superkit of your 23andme and Ancestry kits to make matches anywhere reliable.

Having downloaded match data from 23andme and MyHeritage and using the highlight duplicates function, we have now found a number of shared matches between myself and OH. The most interesting of these shared matches is FG on MyHeritage. FG's tree is private but they are based in the US. FG and I share 56.1cm across 6 segments with the largest being 15.5cm. OH and FG share 80.9cm across 8 segments with the largest being 20.9cm. Based on these it would appear that FG is a fairly close relative of both OH and I. However (and this is the bit I really cannot understand), FG is not a shared match with either of my parents although FG and I do have a number of matches in common with my dad. How could this be possible? Surely if FG is a match for me, they should also be a match to one of my parents? I realise it is possible to share DNA and not be related but the total amount and number of segments both OH and I share with FG surely make this unlikely. I have been going round in circles for the last few days and have considered all sorts of possibilities including contamination of the samples! I would note that I also have another match on Myheritage who I share 52cm across 5 segments (largest 25cm) who is also not a match to either parent.

Can anyone help shed any light on this? Many thanks in advance and thanks for reading this long post!
Unfortunately MyHeritage has the same problem, but possibly not quite as bad with unreliable matching. The only matching I would trust currently down to small cMs is same company at same time - to same company at same time tested kits, or, full genome sequence comparisons. All sites that allow uploads such as MyHeritage, GEDMATCH, and FTDNA use imputation to cope with the fact different chips analyse different SNPs, which introduces a large % of false matches, especially as you go to smaller segment sizes.