Author Topic: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER  (Read 2410 times)

Offline Duneane

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Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« on: Wednesday 21 December 22 15:00 GMT (UK) »
I believe that my Great Grandmother (Mary Greer) may have been baptised at Holy Name, Chorlton on Medlock in 1889. She was born abt 1862 in Northern Ireland, but I think she converted to Roman Catholicism in adulthood.
Can anybody tell me how I can access any baptismal records that may exist, that would include this event?
Thank you.
Brady; Murphy; Randles; Gray

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 15:43 GMT (UK) »
Maria Greer, born 1st August 1862, was baptised on 25th October 1889 at Holy Name, Lancashire, the daughter of Herberti Greer and Mariae Walpole.

Names are latinised, which is perhaps why you could not find her. No image, I'm afraid, but the transcript is on FindMyPast.

Queenie  :)

Offline Duneane

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 16:00 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the help!
I was hoping for Michael as her father… is there any more info, like place of birth, or address?
Brady; Murphy; Randles; Gray

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Nope, I included everything on the transcription.

Where did you get the name Michael from? Was it the name she gave for her father on her marriage record?

Queenie  :)


Offline Duneane

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 16:23 GMT (UK) »
Yes. She married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral in 1889 and gives her father as Michael (Michaelis). I know that some of her family were Church of Ireland and that some were baptised as RC later in life. I thought this was a good guess and maybe she was baptised just before she married.
Brady; Murphy; Randles; Gray

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 17:47 GMT (UK) »
Would you like some assistance with your search? If you do, I have a few questions:

I know that some of her family were Church of Ireland and that some were baptised as RC later in life.

Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "her family"? Her siblings? Can you provide more information on these family members? Did they also move from Ireland to the Lancashire area?

Yes. She married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral in 1889 and gives her father as Michael (Michaelis).

Who were the witnesses to her marriage?

Also, am I right in thinking she had 2 children: Thomas (1890) and Ellen (1898) and that her husband Thomas was a hairdresser?

Queenie  :)

Offline Duneane

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ann Greer married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral on 9th July, 1889. Witnesses were Augustino Donohue and Sophia Hyndman. Mary Ann’s parents were Michael and Mary Greer.
We think Mary Ann was born about 1864 in Co Antrim, based on census ages. Her mother married Andrew Hyndman in the Church of Ireland church of St Anne’s, Belfast in 1870 and they had further children who were step-siblings to my Mary Ann. One of them was Sophia Hyndman, the witness above, who married Austin Donohoe the other witness.
The marriage of her mother to Andrew Hyndman states that she was a Spinster not a Widow - so she obviously wasn’t married to Michael Greer. The odd thing, is that she is also a Greer - so they either shared the surname or my Mary Ann was a product of an incestuous relationship?
Mary Greer (the mother) also states on her marriage that her father was Robert.
As far as I know, the step-siblings (Hyndman) were born in Co Antrim and Salford.
Mary Ann married Thomas Nixon a hairdresser from Preston and they had my Grandmother Ellen in 1898… but I’m not aware that she had a brother.
Brady; Murphy; Randles; Gray

Offline QueenoftheWest

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 19:48 GMT (UK) »
Looking into it further, it looks like Thomas Jr. died as an infant, so it makes sense that you were unaware of his existence.

His birth:
NIXON, THOMAS       GREER 
GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in SALFORD  Volume 08D  Page 99

Most likely, his death:
NIXON, THOMAS       0 
GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in SALFORD  Volume 08D  Page 93

On reading your reply, I feel that I have come up with a theory:

Mary Greer gives birth to an illegitimate daughter, Mary Ann Greer, sometime around 1864. She later marries Andrew Hyndman in 1870 and, having not been married previously, she correctly describes herself as spinster.

When Mary Ann marries, the shame and stigma around illegitimacy (especially in the Catholic community) leads her to making up a father called "Michael Greer." It is entirely possible that Mary Ann grew up knowing that her biological father's forename was Michael, but she added Greer so it matched up with her surname.

This to me seems a possible explanation of the "spinster" on the marriage certificate and the shared Greer surname. I have to say, people could be wonderfully imaginative when it came to disguising illegitimacy in the 19th century. My great-great-grandfather was registered under the most fanciful reduplicated name (Laurance John Laurance - allegedly after his father), with his father's occupation equally imaginative (teacher of foreign languages). His mother had 2 children out of wedlock, and she registered both with this imaginary father. She left the family soon after the birth of her second child and Laurance was raised by a relative (I discovered his adoptive mother was a relative through DNA). I spent many hours on a wild goose chase after this father, and have come to the conclusion that he was not real.

Whilst there will always be a shred of doubt around whether the father was in fact real, it was through the DNA test that I have 99% confirmed that he wasn't. I tested my mother (Laurance's great-granddaughter) and received not a single Laurance match.

My theory could be completely wrong, so feel free to ignore my rambling response, but if you are truly interested in solving this puzzle, might it be worth testing your DNA? If you have a living parent, who is a generation closer, that would be even better. If you receive a load of Northern Irish matches around the right area that don't seem to fit into any other branch of your tree, it could be through Mary Ann's father.

Queenie  :)

Offline Duneane

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Re: Holy Name Chorlton on Medlock - GREER
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 December 22 20:59 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your scenario - I do tend to agree with it. Unfortunately, most of my family originate in Co Antrim, so we have lots of green DNA from that area.
Can you tell me where you got the Greer reference on Thomas’s birth please? The index on Ancestry shows him, but no Mothers maiden name…
Brady; Murphy; Randles; Gray