Seeking info: Alexander Joass -farmer at Burnside- married Helen Ross 23/04/1774

[GR2]

Any ideas why Helen Ross wouldn't be buried with Alexander? Was it taboo to bury a second wife in the same plot as your first? I imagine Helen buried with her parents somewhere in King Edward area. They could be in Banffshire also.

I wouldn't worry at all about the failure to mention Helen Ross on the gravestone at King Edward.

1. Relatively few people had grave stones and, where they survive, not everyone buried in that grave is mentioned on the inscription.

2. Being mentioned on a gravestone does not actually mean you are definitely buried there, Where detailed burial registers survive, you often find that family members might be buried in several graves, but only one has a stone on it and they are all mentioned there.

3. An inscription may be built up over the years as new burials are made, or it might all be carved at the same time when a later burial takes place.

4. There was no problem about burying  more than one wife in the same grave. I can think of an example in Methlick where the names of three wives are on the same stone.

5. Sometimes there is no room left on a stone for additional writing.

6. it requires someone to go to the effort and expense of having the inscription added.

Presumably Alexander Joass had the first part of the inscription made, as far as the mention of Mary Duncan. When he died, Helen Ross was probably still alive.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Regarding John Joass of Bloodymire -who married Isobel Riddoch 

DNA is saying I am related to a Helen Joass who married John Lumsden. I followed her back through the documents and find:

JOASS HELEN
WILLIAM JOASS/ISOBEL PORTER FR489 (FR489)
F
29/08/1805
155
20 / 278
Gamrie and Macduff

william Joass was born:

JOASS WILLIAM
JOHN JOASS/ISOBEL RIDDOCH FR641 (FR641)
M
15/06/1777
155
20 / 556
Gamrie and Macduff

In the documents you see that this is John Joafs of Bloodymire who appears many times as witness to Burnside Joass births.

Alexander Joass 17??-1802 had a son John 12/04/1770 with Mary Duncan and John Joafs Bloodymire is the witness. This has lead me to believe that Alexander Joass of Burnside and John Joafs of Bloodymire are brothers. I'm related to both of them at any rate.

The witness at the birth of William 1777 was Alexander Joass of Bauds who I suspect is a Nephew of Alexander Joass of Burnside.

John Joass of Bloodymire also had a son named Walter the same year ...1780 as Alexander Joass of Burnside.

JOSS
WALTER
   
JOHN JOSS/ISABEL RIDDOCH FR425 (FR425)
M
01/05/1780
155
20 / 153
Gamrie and Macduff

If John Joass of Bloodymire is the brother of Alexander of Burnside then it's possible he could be the John of Alexander Joass of Alvah mentioned earlier. 

JOASS JOHN
ALEXANDER JOASS/
M
04/03/1724
146
10 / 21
Alvah

This scenerio would make him about 53 for birth of William in 1777. Still just a theory.

[Rosinish]

Unfortunately I don't have time at present to read through all the 'Joass' threads again & apologise if this has already been mentioned since I looked but I thought it may be of benefit...

There's a lot of info. on NRS online catalogue re the Joass/Jos/Joss families - https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx

A few examples...

GD16/23/42 - 1652-1689...
"Contract of wadset (& legal papers following thereon) between James, Earl of Airlie, with consent of Isobel Hammiltoun, his spouse and James, Lord Ogilvye, his son, on the one part and Thomas Jos in Hiltoun of Blairshinnoch, for himself and on behalf of William, Patrick and James Joss, his second, third and fourth sons, on the other part."


GD198/287 - 1658-1786 - Joass family papers...
"Bundle 1:

1. Testament of Thomas Joass in favour of his son, William, 1666
2. Confirmation of the Joass armorial bearings by Lord Lyon to William Joass, 1679
3. Testament of William Joass, 1711
4. Inhibition by Milne against Ogilvie and related papers, 1657-1659

Bundle 2:

1. Contract of marriage between Alexander Cruickshank and Helen Joass, 1731
2. Testamentary letter of Helen Joass, daughter of George Joass and sister of Major Joass, 1772
3. Release of lands belonging to General Scott by Major Joass for the sum of £1066, 1776

Bundle 3:

1. Decree by the Earls of Findlater and Seafield and Patrick Miln, his tacksman, against George Joass of Colleonare and his tenants, 1743

Bundle 4:

1. Copy of deed of entail for Glasshaugh by General Abercromby amd Captain Abercromby, 1780

Bundle 5:

1. Marriage contract between Elizabeth Abercromby and Major Alexander Joass in Edinburgh, 1767
2. Nomination of subscribers and curators for Mary Joass, his only child, by Major Joass, 1771
3. Bond of provision by Major Joass in favour of Mrs. Joass and Miss Simpson, 1786

Bundle 6: Not held

Bundle 7:

1. Memoir from Major Alexander Joass, 1762
2. Copy opinion for Major Alexander Joass from Alexander Lockhart concerning relief of sundry debts in the case of Lord Banff against Messers Hays, 1762
3. Minutes between Lord Banff and Major Joass concerning the possession of the Banff estate by two apparent heirs successively, 1763
4. Representation for Major Alexander Joass, late of Colleonard concerning Lord Banff's estate after his death, 1764
5. Memorial and queries for Major Alexander Joass, late of Colleonard, with answers regarding Lord Banff's estate after his death, 1764
6. Petition of Major Alexander Joass, late of Colleonard regarding Lord Banff's estate after his death and answer, 1765
7. Back bond from Major Alexander Joass to John Law, lawful heir to Lord Banff, c 1765
8. Account between Lord Banff and Major Joass, 1770.

Plus three small envelopes.

Bundle 5: Some of the contents listed on the bundle wrapper are not contained within the envelope."

GD36/73 - 17 Jan 1759...
"Copy Memorial for Lieutenant Alexander Joass of the Royal Regiment of Foot anent lands and barony of Caleonard in parish and sheriffdom of Banff disponed by him in favour of James, Earl of Findlater and Seafield, with Opinion by John Craigie annexed"

Any of the above would need to be ordered via a researcher e.g. scottishindexes.com or similar.

Annie

[Rosinish]

I've been quite intrigued with this family & how they may be related as they all appear to be related in some way...

Bundle 2:

1. Contract of marriage between Alexander Cruickshank and Helen Joass, 1731

Today I found a bit more...

1731

"Draft papers relative to marriage contract between Alexander Cruikshank of Balnoon and Helen Joass, second daughter of deceased John Joass of Collenard, with consent of Mary Ogilvie, her mother"

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01smu/

Variant of Collenard / Colleonard

Annie

[Alan of Kaslo]

Thank you so much!

Greatly appreciated. Will now digest the info.

I was trying to see if there was a connection between the Joass of Burnside of Cullen and the Joass at Collenard. It's my understanding the lairdship of Collenard was in the hands of the Joass family but it changed hands later. So not all the Collenard Joasses have documents signed by sirs and important people...some of them were just farmers etc.

Anyhow , now that I see the maps I can see that Collenard and Burnside are not too far apart. It's also close to the towns that Alexander Joass (who had kids early 1720/30's in Alvah) ... Funkiestown , Brydock and Stonyhill. I believe there is a connection to Alexander Joass of Alvah.

The son of Alexander Joass and Helen Ross is Walter 1780.
The name Walter Joass repeats a few times in Banffshire.
Walter Joass 1780 had a wee brother who died young in 1764 (the year after both parents died).
Alexander Joass's brother John of Bloodymire also had a son Walter in 1780 with Isobel Riddoch.

If you go back further ... two Walter Joasses were born in Alvah to the Alexander I mentioned above. One in 1727 who died and another in 1728.

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/64f9ce4c865574086e839f28?locale=en

The witnesses for the 1728 Walter Joass birth were:
"Walter Simson in Auchenbaidie; James and John Joass in Moncoffer"

Before that there was a Walter born in Banff 1684/5:

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/595ed195f493fdbd7ae3e773/walter-joass-baptism-banffshire-banff-1685-03-06?locale=en

This is a Collenard Joass birth...

Witnesses:  Walter Reaburn, Walter Milne & Walter Simson

Now I realize that is not much of a breakthrough clue ... but it seems like something, possibly.

I definitely feel that there is a connection between the various Walter Joasses about Banffshire. They could lead back to Walter 1684/5 ... I need more proof though.

Thanks again for any help!

Alan

[Rosinish]

I think there's a typo...

"The son of Alexander Joass and Helen Ross is Walter 1780.
The name Walter Joass repeats a few times in Banffshire.
Walter Joass 1780 had a wee brother who died young in 1764 (the year after both parents died)"

Walter 1780 would've been born after his parents died in 1763?

Annie

[Alan of Kaslo]

Yes a typo! Thanks. A brain stall even.

The Walter that died in 1764 is the uncle of Walter 1780.

As far as the 2 Walters from Alvah 1720's , i assumed they were brothers. I might be wrong there.

[Rosinish]

Not sure if you've seen these but it seems likely there's a connection with this William Joass of (what I think looks like) Collenard/Colleonard...

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01smz/ & http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sn0/

From here...http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sn1/

Seems the name changed to Joyce, possibly down to their accent?

Annie

[PriceNash]

Thank you Annie, the witnesses always make for interesting research linking the families and connections. Below the baptism of Thomas Joass it looks like below William Joss of Coleonard? and ? Ogilvie were the witness to John and William Lovie. One would expect they live in close proximity to the Joass' or have a family connection.