Trying To Identify Sailor - John G Sutherland

[Forfarian]

The Elgin death looks like the same person as the Halkirk birth.

The information in the Moray database is from items in the Press and Journal on 20 April 1999 and the Northern Scot on 23 April 1999. However it's probably classified death announcements rather than an actual obituary with details about his life, because if there had been a fuller obituary the listing on the Moray web site would have contained, for example, his occupation or where else he lived if that information was in the obituary.

The death certificate would, of course, confirm his occupation, but it may well be that his occupation at the time of his death was something other than a sailor in the Royal Navy.

It seems much more likely that a sailor involved with King George VI's gin (sic) carriage would be quite a young man, so a birth in 1906 doesn't seem likely - that JGS would be 45 or 46 years of age in 1952.

[manukarik]

Is this the medal you were referring to?

https://www.emedals.com/naval-general-service-medal-1915-1962-near-east-gb2348


Let me know if there is specific information you are looking for and I can go and check in Nucleus: The Nuclear and Caithness Archives which are not far from where I work.

[MonicaL]

It seems much more likely that a sailor involved with King George VI's gin (sic) carriage would be quite a young man, so a birth in 1906 doesn't seem likely - that JGS would be 45 or 46 years of age in 1952.

The possible birth for a John Geoge in Halkirk is showing in 1928 on the SP index. Looking at the seamen who took part in the 1952 gun carriage procession on film now, they do look to be young and likely in their 20s (just like we saw in the recent funeral of Queen Elizabeth II).

Monica

[PaulJC]

Was this the medal you mention that was given to J G C Sutherland? https://www.emedals.com/naval-general-service-medal-1915-1962-near-east-gb2348

Monica

No. Same man though and it forms part of the story. He was given a silver Royal Victorian Medal in 1952 for his part in the Kings funeral.

[PaulJC]

Thanks.

Yes the 1928 birth is the one we identified. I am trying to find a connection with the Navy.

The 1906 birth in Dorset had everything - a father who was in the navy who lived in Portmouth which is close to where John G was shore based. Then I saw his father was from Caithness so I thought bingo. But then the newspaper article saying the seaman John G Sutherland on the gun carriage was from Halkirk not Dorset. But there is that connection with Caithness.........

I have a feeling that the 1928 man is not the one I am after. The death in Elgin doesnt feel right unless he decided to go home after sailing the seven seas.

[PaulJC]

It seems much more likely that a sailor involved with King George VI's gin (sic) carriage would be quite a young man, so a birth in 1906 doesn't seem likely - that JGS would be 45 or 46 years of age in 1952.

The possible birth for a John Geoge in Halkirk is showing in 1928 on the SP index. Looking at the seamen who took part in the 1952 gun carriage procession on film now, they do look to be young and likely in their 20s (just like we saw in the recent funeral of Queen Elizabeth II).

Monica

I agree but the authorities are not being precise about what he actually did during the funeral. The men of HMS Excellent were responsible for the gin carriage but I know that some walked by the side rather than pulled so an older man could have done this. Although its frustrating we are glad we did not publish on the basis of the 1906 Dorset man. I wonder if any local newspapers had more information than The Aberdeen Evening Express of 1952 who just gave a name and place of birth?

[Forfarian]

The England births and 39 Register drew a blank

There's an unmarried schoolmaster, born 16 September 1906, in the 1939 Register in Enfield, who could be John George Sutherland born in Poole and registered in the December quarter in 1906.

Also a death of John George Sutherland, born 16 September 1906, in Hampstead in the June quarter of 1977.

Clutching a bit at passing straws, it occurs to me to wonder who would have been walking alongside rather than harnessed to the gin carriage. Surely any such men would have been officers or petty officers, in which case would their rank not have been listed? If JGS' rank wasn't mentioned, would it not be reasonable to assume that he was a rating or AB and not an officer, and therefore young rather than middle aged?

[ShaunJ]

If JGS' rank wasn't mentioned, would it not be reasonable to assume that he was a rating or AB and not an officer, and therefore young rather than middle aged?

His rank is mentioned. He was an Ordinary Seaman. By the time he was awarded the Near East medal he was a Leading Seaman.

[PaulJC]

Thanks again,

I saw the 1906 Poole man in the 1939 Register but I doubt that a schoolteacher would later have joined the navy as an ordinary seaman. The Halkirk reference has thrown us but there is this intriguing connection between the 1906 Dorset birth and his navy father from Caithness based in Portsmouth?

I guess were are hoping for someone in the area to know of the man and perhaps the local library might help?