When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?

[alexreg]

The only two I can find, other than 1728, at West Kirby are:-

Thomas Linekar, Yeoman, 29th December 1783 of West Kirby

Thomas Linekar, Yeoman, 9th July 1815 of Great Meolse, b 1722
Presumed husband of Elizabeth Shaw

David

Thanks for checking. That's what I thought. A little odd, however.

[alexreg]

Sorry to throw more info at you, but I should also mention that I did a bit of digging into the origins of Margery Holt, the wife of Robert Smith of West Kirby / Heswall and the purported mother of our John Smith. I find no evidence of any Holt's in the vicinity of West Kirby or neighbouring parishes. The only Margery Holt I can find in the right timeframe is the one baptised 19 Feb 1688/9 [O.S./N.S.] at Ince, the daughter of John Holt (d. 1718) and Margery Billinge (d. 1693). This is certainly about the birth year I'd expect considering Robert Smith was born 1680 and Robert and Margery married in 1715. Would be interesting to see if anyone has DNA evidence to support this idea, as Ince is good few miles (though not excessively far) from West Kirby.

Hello both,

Happy new year! I have a nice update on the above topic. It looks like this Margery Hoult was indeed the wife of Robert Smith (and mother of John). Here's a timeline I've reconstructed.

Thomas Billinge & Margery Ellis married 31 Aug 1683 at Woodchurch (but recorded in register of Ince!) by licence
--- Marriage licence indicates that Thomas Billinge ('Billington' there) was a husbandman of Ince, and Margery Ellis was of Barnston in Woodchurch, and that William Ellis of Heswall was the other bondsman alongside Margery herself.
John Holt/Hoult of Ince & Margery Billinge (née Ellis) married 06 May 1688 at Ince
Margery Holt baptised 19 Feb 1688/9 at Ince
Mary Holt baptised 18 Oct 1691 at Ince
Robert Smith & Margery Holt married 01 Dec 1715 at Heswall

So, it seems likely that Margery Holt moved to Heswall as a young woman, owing to the ties of her mother's family to Heswall and neighbouring Barnston. William Ellis of Heswall died there in 1705, and my suspicion is that he was her uncle. I found what ought to be his baptism record (at Heswall) in 1665, son of John Ellis. I couldn't find any baptism records of siblings, unfortunately.

Alex

[alexreg]

Hello again,

I've been looking into DNA matches the last couple of days, and come up with some interesting (although still vague) findings. In brief, there is clear evidence among the DNA matches of my mother and two of her siblings of links to the Weaverham and Great Budworth areas of Cheshire. This makes me strongly suspect that our ancestor Margaret Harrison of Great Budworth who married Daniel Linacre at Weaverham church in 1751, was from that area.

Two DNA matches in particular are worth looking at, since they allow for triangulation.

"Lyndsay Jones, Nee Ormsby"
descended from Minnie Harrison, b. 1877 in Leftwich, daughter of James Harrison of Lymm & Mary Elizabeth Buckley of Warburton
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/66864865/family?cfpid=330106358423

"Sharon Harrison"
descended from Henry Leigh Harrison, b. 1866 in Davenham, son of the same James Harrison & Mary Elizabeth Buckley
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/170418931/family?cfpid=272219274393

I haven't checked the second tree for accuracy, but all the individuals seem to be from the areas of Lymm and Northwich. The earliest Harrison ancestor seems to be William Harrison b. ~1748, m. Ann Dean 1776 in Lymm, d. 1816 in Lymm (aged 68). Going back further is trickier. Lymm is a little way from Weaverham, but in several of the trees I've looked at, there seem to be links between the two areas, for whatever reason.

I should also draw your attention to a record for the baptism of Mary, illegitimate daughter of Margaret Harrison, 07 Apr 1745 at Witton-cum-Tawambrooks (a chapelry of Great Budworth parish).

https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FB%2F766554082%2F1

The abbreviation "st:ra" next to Margaret's name is an unusual one. I really don't know what it could mean.

Finally, here's the will of a certain Thomas Harrison of Little Leigh par. Great Budworth (the part that borders on Weaverham), which may be relevant.

https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FCHS%2F748091032

Please let me know if you have any thoughts or ideas.

[roxalma]

Hi Alex
I am new to this site as I am researching my ancestors, the Depear Family. I read your earlier posts regarding the Depear surname (although no year is given as to when you posted them) with great interest. My great grandmother (b.1856) had related to my grandmother (b.1883) that her father, Matthew Depear (b.1824) had told her that the Depear family were Huguenot's and had arrived in Lincolnshire to indeed help with the fen drainage and build the dyke system. You stated in one post, that the 'De Lespiere ( from whom the Depear name was a derivation) family were among the skilled drainage workers but it was not conclusive.' Well, as I have been handed down that information by 'word of mouth' through my ancestors, I am inclined to believe that your beliefs can be 'conclusive' as there were no written records (or internet  ) in the mid 19th century and it is a story that has been verbally related from generation to generation, throughout my family.  Hope this gives you some affirmation.

[alexreg]

Hi Alex
I am new to this site as I am researching my ancestors, the Depear Family. I read your earlier posts regarding the Depear surname (although no year is given as to when you posted them) with great interest. My great grandmother (b.1856) had related to my grandmother (b.1883) that her father, Matthew Depear (b.1824) had told her that the Depear family were Huguenot's and had arrived in Lincolnshire to indeed help with the fen drainage and build the dyke system. You stated in one post, that the 'De Lespiere ( from whom the Depear name was a derivation) family were among the skilled drainage workers but it was not conclusive.' Well, as I have been handed down that information by 'word of mouth' through my ancestors, I am inclined to believe that your beliefs can be 'conclusive' as there were no written records (or internet  ) in the mid 19th century and it is a story that has been verbally related from generation to generation, throughout my family.  Hope this gives you some affirmation.

Hello, and thank you very much for sharing that! I always had the suspicion that some sort of story about their origins was passed down the family, but my DePear grandmother didn't know her father very well (a long story). So, it's really nice to finally have this account from you. All I previously had in this regard was a census form where my great-great-grandfather (who moved to the US at one point) evidently told the enumerator that his parents were from France. I figured there had to be a kernel of truth in this, even though his parents were of course English.

My recent inclinations have actually been more towards the idea that the De Lespieres / Depears and their fellow Walloons/French who settled with them were farmers or graziers who were enticed over by the prospect of cheap reclaimed fenland, besides the religious sanctuary, of course. But now with this story you were handed down, it again sounds most likely that they helped with the drainage project and later farmed the land. I'm curious, was any other information or tales of the Depears passed down to you?

Incidentally, I'd be more than glad to share the results of my research into the DePear / De Lespiere family, if you're interested. My direct ancestor is actually a Matthew Depear born 1825, though I've seen "born 1824" elsewhere, since another of the same name was born in Holbeach in that year. Was yours also the one married to Mary Ann Brown, or the other one? What's more, I'm currently in the process of making the leap back across the Channel, which they seem to have crossed in 1628 or thereabouts. I found some strong hints about where they came from, and am pursuing those.

Please feel free to send me a private message.

[roxalma]

Hi Alex
Thanks for your prompt reply. It seems we do share some common ancestors but as I am new to this site, apparently I have to reply to three posts before I can private message you?  I would prefer to do that, as we may be able to compare some tree lineage which I may wish to keep private, at this time. Hopefully, after another reply I can start to use private messaging.