Samuel Collins

[Neale1961]

There may have been a previous criminal charge in early 1834 for which Samuel was acquitted.

It is note worthy that both Samuel Cohen and Samuel Collins are recorded as being able to Read and Write. Not a common skill in those times.

[Neale1961]

Sailed on the brig “William” on 16 Oct 1845 from Tasmania to Sydney ….
Samuel Cohen ….
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8757517/671375

ADDED: Therefore conflicting information could be explained.
Samuel arrived in the colony onboard "Mangles", and he arrived in Sydney onboard "William". So both gaol records are "correct".

[Neale1961]

From Samuel Cohen’s convict indent, and other records, you have a very good description of him, including a tatoo of a woman on his right arm. If you can match this to a gaol / police description of Samuel Collins from Sydney, then you know he is the same fellow.
(I have run out of time at the moment to pursue this line.)


The earliest I could see information relating to Samuel Collins a Cabman in Sydney is 1855
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12977242?searchTerm=%22Samuel%20collins%22%20AND%20cabman


There is a Samuel Henry Cohen in Maitland who is constantly in the papers for insolvency, etc, BUT this is a different man.

[BIMINI]

Good evening Neale11961

Thank you once again for your assistance and what you have covered certainly seems to place more of an idea who my Samuel Collins was - after wasting so long and not utilising this site!
I have used Ancestry to list all of the Gaol entries for Samuel Collins' including many which do not include details of arrival in the Colony but will specifically concentrate on the 2 entries for the vessels "William" and "Mangles" . I must admit that from the majority of the entries for Darlinghurst, he certainly liked a drink!
There is alo one for Parramatta Gaol which, probably fanciful thinking, fits in with the date and place that his soon to be wife, Mary Ann, came from.
As the entries do not give details of tattoos etc. should I now address my enquiry to the NSW State records?
Thank you once again, so gratefully appreciated

[Neale1961]

Geoff, Can I ask if you have Samuel's death certificate, and if there is any information there regarding parents names or occupations?

I have looked in the NSW State Archives indexes but I cannot see anything there that might be useful or relevant to the current search.

I think you need to go through Trove articles and gaol records related to Samuel Collins with a "fine tooth comb" and record everything. Sometimes the tiniest detail can be the key to unlocking the answer.
I am still pursuing a number of things, and I will get back to you when I can offer more information.

[BIMINI]

Hi Neale 1961
Unfortunately his death certificate does not give much information at all with both parents names and occupations noted as "unknown". His cause of death is given as "chronic bronchitis , cardiac synope" but a point which is also noted is " inquest unnecessary- JC Moore City Coroner 5/7/1895". I wonder why this would have been recorded and if there is a record of his body description i.e. tattoos etc.
I have written to NSW Records seeking their help in having a look at a couple of gaol entries to see if there are the descriptions we seek - here's hoping.
As for Trove, I have just read up to page 71 of the period between 1845 and 1892 and although there are a lot of entries for drunkenness, assault, riotios behaviour ( What a guy!!) nothing has jumped out yet which has opened anything further.

[Neale1961]

His cause of death is given as "chronic bronchitis , cardiac synope" but a point which is also noted is " inquest unnecessary- JC Moore City Coroner 5/7/1895". I wonder why this would have been recorded and if there is a record of his body description i.e. tattoos etc.

An inquest was not needed as he probably had been ill and declining for some time, and the doctor was aware of that. So his death was not suspicious. Also his advanced age, a reason for a death that did not require an inquest.
No inquest = no description of body.

[Neale1961]

Regarding Samuel COHEN convict to VDL 1835
I have now found a number of records from London’s Newgate gaol for this man. Ages all match, offence and sentence all match, and all documents give his occupation as “labourer” – nothing about being a baker.

The records also give his place of birth as “St Botolph” which is in Aldgate - right in the middle of London. This is the place where his parents are recorded as residing in both Samuel’s convict indent and in the following census.

So it is clear there are some errors which appear to have crept into Samuel’s records once in Tasmania. At some point his place of origin has incorrectly become Botolphs Sussex, rather than St Botolphs London.

The other error I believe is in relation to his trade which has been recorded in error as “baker”. I think this might have been confused with the name of his last employer in London which has been recorded on the convict indent as “Philip – Baker”. Was this Mr Philip a baker, or was he Mr Philip Baker ?– I don’t know. Possibly Samuel was doing labouring work for him.

[Neale1961]

It does seem possible that COLLINS and COHEN are the same man. The circumstantial evidence is good.
One way to confirm would be to link the physical descriptions, if not by the tattoo, then by height, facial shape, eye and hair colour etc. Since your Samuel Collins was not a serious criminal, but rather a public nuisance, it is not surprising there is not a detailed description of him in police records.
The other way to confirm we have found the right man would be through DNA.

SUMMARY:
•   Both Samuel COHEN and Samuel COLLINS are born about 1816 in London
•   Both are Jews and both convicts
•   Both can read and write
•   Both travelled on ships “Mangles” and “William” (this is the most compelling fact)
•   Both are in labouring-type/ unskilled occupations
•   COLLINS said he had been in the colony from about 1835, which is the same year that convict Samuel COHEN arrived.
•   There is no record of a convict named Samuel COLLINS of the right age arriving in the correct time period.
•   Both men have records in Australia of “nuisance” and “disruptive behaviour”, but no particularly serious offences.
•   COHEN arrived in Sydney from Tasmania in Oct 1845. I cannot find any evidence of a Samuel COHEN in Sydney after that date (no marriage, or death, or newspaper reference).
•   Assumption - COHEN changed name to COLLINS between 1845 and (at the latest) 1855

Some general speculation:
•   As you say the lack of a marriage may be due to his Jewish religion, or perhaps there was a church or synagogue marriage that does not appear in the formal registrations, as it occurred before this became compulsory.
•   Samuel does not use any Cohen family names for his children. Had he felt abandoned by his Jewish family in London, he might have avoided their names, and perhaps was reason to change his own surname.