Samuel Collins

[BIMINI]

Thank you all for your responses to date.
To Neale 1961- yes I have noticed that in addition to the Mangles however there is no record of a Samuel Collins on either.
To wivenhoe- yes all of the births are his and Mary Ann's children including my great grandfather Alfred Augustus..
On the birth certificate of Samuel Joesph, his age is given as 39 years and birthplace London. the informant was Mary Ann Collins ( with x mark) but the mother is noted as Mary Ann McCrumb !
To maddys52- yes I have read this plus there a couple of other recordings of a Samuel Collins apparently liking a drink.
Looking forward to any more suggestions- thanks to all

[Neale1961]

It seems to me that COLLINS is hardly a Jewish name. But COHEN is a Jewish name, and it would be an easy change to go from Cohen to Collin.
With that in mind have you considered the following?

Samuel Cohen  born 1816
Religion - Jewish
Single. Can Read and Write
Tried Old Bailey London 1834
Transported for 14 years - for stealing
Arrived Mangles 1835
TOL 1841
Conditional pardon 1843, extended to 1845
https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/life?id=obpdef1-126-18341124

[maddys52]

He is shown as being admitted to Darlinghurst Gaol but request on the fate, or anything on the reason, have not produced anything.

I'm assuming you mean in 1874? He was fined 10s.or 4 days in gaol for being drunk and disorderly on Crown St.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13332044

You can see Ah CHEN and Henry SMITH either side of Samuel COLLINS on the "Description Book" for Darlinghust Gaol (on Ancestry)

[maddys52]

I suspect the March 1866 entry for Samuel COLLINS (who arrived on the "William") is one of those "thirty persons fined ... for various breaches of the Municipal by laws":
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60593967

You can see the others mentioned by name in this report around Samuel's name in the "Description Book" on Ancestry.

[BIMINI]

Hi Neale1961
Wow, that certainly could answer a few questions if in fact it is him. The age certainly could fit, and although he went to Tasmania (VDL) he may have drifted up to Sydney post conditional pardon. It could also explain why he never officially married Mary Ann if he had strong Jewish beliefs and maybe it was not approved in those days. I note from a Tasmanian Gaol record that he was a baker and maybe there wasn't work for him hence taking up being a cabman/owner.
Any suggestions how I could pursue this possibility further?

[BIMINI]

Thanks maddy s52

Yes, he does have a few recordings for the love of the drink plus sundry offences- lucky today there are not lock ups for by law breaches.

[maddys52]

Whilst Neale is right that COLLINS is not necessarily a Jewish name, there are a few Jewish families with the name COLLINS in London in the early 1800s. Hyman COLLINS was a picture/curiosity dealer who appears in the papers a few times. There is also this record of a circumcision in 1816 which is probably a son of this Hyman COLLINS, who lived at 31 Cockspur St, Charing Cross, definitely in 1828 according to one newspaper report.
https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=20006

[Neale1961]

Not uncommon for convicts to change their name to get away from their criminal past. He may have wanted to disguise his Jewish name for other reasons too.
I could see no records of a Samuel Cohen in Tasmania after the date of his pardon. Coming from London, he would have moved quite happily to Sydney.
I doubt he was a very skilled baker by the age of 18. He may have been working for a baker.
I am having trouble reading all the writing on the various records,  but on one sheet there is a mention of a Daniel Lipman in Newington (London), also Philip - baker. I think Samuel's father was named Moses.
Edited.

[Neale1961]

On the Newgate Prison record, Samuel Cohen is recorded as a labourer.