DNA & STILL A BRICK WALL

[shanreagh]

It is the Bridget Hennessy from this this marriage to Jeremiah Dwyer that we are trying to find the baptism for

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632715#page/212/mode/1up

21/2/1846 at the parish church Galbally and Aherlow.

The witnesses were Thomas Hennessy and Thady Hennessy poss father and brother of this Bridget Hennessy. 

This Bridget and Jeremiah subsequently moved to Bansha. 

Lillibelle has found a series of baptisms from 1841-1846.  Not sure which parish. 

We will need to find the baptism/marriage for this couple as well  - Hennessy & Walsh/Welch

The Bridget from Iowa has these as birth dates/ages in the 3 censuses
1860  born 1830 age 30
1870  born in 1827 so 43
1880 born 1832 so 48

[shanreagh]

Here is the link to Bridget Cleary Hennessy's death.  To state the obvious neither the Bridget who married Jeremiah Dwyer nor Brdiget Hennessy/Welch could not have been born after July 1841.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVKJ-13YV

This Bridget Hennessy was the daughter of Timothy/Thady Hennessy who was the son of Thomas and Bridget Cleary Hennessy.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rr3/

A way back Deb had some second forenames to the children of John Welch and Bridget Hennessy.  From memory (?) one of them was Martin.
There is an interesting birth to a Martin Hennessy and Bidy Brien in Jul 1829
There is a Kilpatrick in Co Tipperary

A link showing  Bridget Walsh Hennessy marr to Martin Hennessy and with a child Thomas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5B1-69M

Dwyer births again . not sure I recorded all of these earlier.
Michael Dwyer from Bansha born 1854
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5B1-69M
James Dwyer born 1853
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6D22-2DJL
Thomas Dwyer born1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6628-BW3G
jerome Dwyer born 1859
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6DT9-J8MK
John Dwyer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:66KR-F8T6
Toby born 1846
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FFR-PRBB
Kate born 1856

We have covered Bridget Hennessy married to Dwyer & Bridget Hennessy married to Burke but not this Bridget married to a Carew at Anacarty & Donohue Co Tipp with Patrick born 1849
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0238
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FL3-4HL8

[lillibelle57]

I have never seen a baptism record for Bridget or for John. Thanks, Lilli

[Maiden Stone]

I have never seen a baptism record for Bridget

The only Bridget Hennessy baptisms I found in Galbaly & Aherlow parish were April 1823 &  Feb.1826. Neither father was Thomas.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0264
Microfilm 02499/03 baptisms 1810-June 1828
Microfilm 02499/04 baptisms Dec. 1828-1872
So there are no baptisms recorded July-Nov. 1828.
A note on the "Irish Ancestors" page which lists all known registers for the parish says July 1820-June 1821 are missing.
 
I looked for baptisms of other children of Thomas Hennessy & Bridget Cleary. Found 4 in Galbally register.
Timothy 13th May 1810
Arthur 17th April 1814
John  May 1816*
Eliza 9th July 1822
*2 babies named John with father Thomas Hennessy were baptised in Galbally parish in April 1816. Mother of the first was Margaret Connery.

I hoped that making a list of baptisms of children of Thomas & Bridget (Cleary) Hennessy in chronological order might help to calculate a timeframe during which Bridget was likely born. That didn't work because:  I found baptisms for only 4 of the 10 children;
The order of baptisms doesn't correspond with the order of the list of children on Thomas Hennessy's biography on Find a Grave. That has sons then daughters.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/45852022/thomas-hennessy

Bridget Cleary was born "in or near Cahir" according to her bio on "Find a Grave". It's possible that some of her children may have been born while she was visiting/staying with her own people.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/45852276/bridget-hennessy

Several men named Thomas Hennessy had children baptised in Galbally parish 1810-1830s. Wives Margaret Connery, Eliza Bealy, Mary Anne Howe, Mary Hennessy, Anne Quirk.

[dwelch]

Has anyone ever heard of "THE FORMITABLE GENEAOLOGIST"?  She has a partner who does DNA findings.  I ran across her on Facebook.  I told her about John.  She said she could find anybody in 15 minutes and has solved all her cases.
I challenged her to find John.  So, as it turns out, he is the one and only case she could not solve.
I asked her to come here, to RootsChat and take a look at all our pages of information.
She did and this is what she had to say:

"Just read through this and I see they're finding the same things that I did, but that weren't conclusive as being the right family. Like with Michael Welch in Delaware County, There was no link to John. I'm just not seeing any new leads that I hadn't already covered in US and Irish records."

  So, I know that is no reason to give up, but if a professional and her DNA expert can't find John, then I don't think anyone can.
Unless someone who charges $3000 an hr, to start, tries to search, and I certainly can't afford that!

[Maiden Stone]

Welcome back Deb.
So an expert has admitted defeat.
There may be no records relating to John prior to to his life in Iowa.

Have you considered John Walsh baptised in Abbeyleix & Ballyroan parish, 4th August 1824, parents Edward & Dibby? Another Edward Walsh (Ned) had a child Jean (?) baptised there on 30th July. They caught my eye, thinking that if your ancestor Edward was John's eldest son, John's father might have been Edward. Unfortunately Edward Walsh wasn't an uncommon name. https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634370#page/5/mode/1up
Microfilm 04199/01 Baptisms 6th June 1824-23rg August 1830. The year 1824 is in 2 registers.
Abbeyleix & Ballyroan parish is adjacent to Maryborough.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0685

[dwelch]

 How can we be sure which John is mine without DNA?   I did have two possible matches IN Ireland and I messaged them.  Neither have replied back.  All I can do is try again.

[shanreagh]

How can we be sure which John is mine without DNA?   I did have two possible matches IN Ireland and I messaged them.  Neither have replied back.  All I can do is try again.

Before we had DNA we managed to work out who were ours with top notch researching and examination of records.  We worked on the balance of probabilities.

I suggest that until more of the family of John, who ever they are and where ever they are from are DNA tested then we can only search and be satisfied with the way we did it before DNA.

If you want us to be able to help you will need to give us more information on what exactly the DNA is telling you.  Who are the families you have found in Ireland?  Have you separately traced them back ie done their family trees for them?

Looking back also we have not managed yet to track your Bridget back to the family that you believe she belongs to. 

Have you been in contact or searched for trees of any present day families connected with the children of Thomas Hennessy and Bridget Cleary Hennessy

There were some references that Lillibelle had found that I am not sure have been examined. They were Anc$$try records that i could not cross reference to the NLI records. 

[dwelch]

https://www.ancestry.com/dna/origins/6D9FC415-4A44-4D50-9F2B-C53EA88F2067/details?branch=US_NSC_19th_Ghost_IA_NE_ND_SD&time=1800

Can you get to this link?  I have not paid Ancestry for a month of nothing and they let me see it!
If you can't get it open I will explain where they think John might be!