DNA & STILL A BRICK WALL

[shanreagh]

Deb/lillibelle57, I see someone has a photo of Edward Welch (1855-1924).  Has anyone compared Edward’s photo to Welch photos from the other trees?  It would be interested to find out if there are some similarities.

I wondered if grandchildren/gt grandchildren of Edward's siblings had had their DNA done.  Faust/Scanlan etc families

[Lisa in California]

........  However, I thought two of my Irish ancestors were the only people to settle in Canada.  I eventually found out (with the help of amazing RootsChatters! and someone from another site) my maternal ancestor had at least one sibling who also settled near her.  My paternal ancestor’s 5+ siblings and his parents also settled in nearby Canadian towns.  I wouldn’t want to ignore the possibility of John or Bridget also having relatives in North America.

Then there are the self proclaimed legends.....my gt grandfather told anyone who asked that he was an only child.  Strange then I should find a sister bearing the names of his eldest daughter and a brother bearing the names of an uncle, one of my gt grandfather's children and this brother's children had also kept my gt grandfather's unusual first names going down the generations.

Wow!  That’s a new one.  Sounds like a bit of trouble in the family? 

My mother described him as a 'fierce Presbyterian' ie Orangeman. She never met him but this was going on what my grandmother said about her father.  He lost his wife, and his 6 children their mother, a few years after they arrived in NZ.  He worked terribly hard to look after them - the younger ones lived at an orphanage and he collected them when he could to spend time with him.  He was a plantsman but did all sorts to keep the family going and later went back to gardening, garden design etc.  Several of these families in his family had Presbyterian and Anglican mixes (husbands and wives)  in Co Derry and sometimes that was not an easy mix especially when the Anglican or CoI ones had a few Anglican/Catholic mixes.  But not sure about the sister and brother who seem to be CoI.

How sad.    He must have been an amazing man to have wanted to spend time with the younger children even though he must have been so tired.  What a sad situation all around.

My great uncle’s wife died right after the birth of their first child.  The great uncle and his unmarried sister raised the boy.  My great uncle never remarried.  His son eventually joined the Canadian military and was presumed lost at sea (and never found). My great uncle had other sad events in his life and did at times look sad (in photos and when we would visit) but he never gave up his sense of humour.  He was a wonderful, kind man.  From your brief paragraph about your gt grandfather, he reminds me of my great uncle (their kind spirit).

We also had an Anglican/Catholic marriage in our family.  For the most part, family got along until the death of the husband when his side wanted things done their way.  My mum remembers hearing about the bickering and how the wife finally put her foot down, quite literally, (stomping her foot and using her pent up anger) and told the family members to leave the house.  What a sad time to argue.

[shanreagh]

Bridget from the US has another name in one of the Family Search Family Trees - Burke/s
This may be the marriage notice that was never fulfilled
Bridget Burks
Iowa, County Marriages, 1838-1934
Name:   
John Welch
Event Type:   
Marriage Notice
Event Date:   
14 Aug 1857
Event Place:   
Delaware County, Iowa, United States
Sex:   
Male
Spouse's Name:   
Bridget Burks
Spouse's Sex:   
Female

Her son Edward often has a B as one of his first names.  Perhaps for Burke?  Where does the Burke come from?

[Lisa in California]

Bridget from the US has another name in one of the Family Search Family Trees - Burke/s
This may be the marriage notice that was never fulfilled
Bridget Burks
Iowa, County Marriages, 1838-1934
Name:   
John Welch
Event Type:   
Marriage Notice
Event Date:   
14 Aug 1857
Event Place:   
Delaware County, Iowa, United States
Sex:   
Male
Spouse's Name:   
Bridget Burks
Spouse's Sex:   
Female

Her son Edward often has a B as one of his first names.  Perhaps for Burke?  Where does the Burke come from?

Yes, you are correct about “B”.  I wonder if she married again (prior to her 1857 marriage), to a man named Burke/s?  I’ll have a look around.

[Lisa in California]

Still looking.  In the meantime, I wonder if Bridget Hennesy died prior to 1857 and John happened to marry another lady with, coincidentally, the first name of Bridget?  No, that can’t be correct.  I think Hennesy has been mentioned in records after 1860.

Added:  ancestry doesn’t have that record, at least not for that exact date.

[Maiden Stone]

We have found a Bridget Hennessy referred to on the gravestone marrying a Jeremiah Dwyer then moving to Bansha and subsequently having their children there.  I think that marriage has been linked to. 

I don't think we have found a death in Ireland for Bridget Hennessy Dwyer or emigration yet.
Bridget Hennessy Welch/Walsh dies in Westfield and is buried in Manchester.   

Collating evidence + some sources for Jeremiah Dwyer & Bridget (Hennessy).

Marriage 21st Feb. 1846. No residence or parents' names in register. Link to register in Shanreagh's reply #64.

Children in birth order with baptism dates:
Bridget 19th January 1847 (Link in shanreagh's reply #74)
William 16th March 1848, sponsors John Dwyer & Joanna Walsh
Thomas 15th Sep. 1851, sponsors Jer. O'Leary & Mary Qu.....
Michael 5th June 1854, sponsors Laurence Hennessy & Cath.  ___ (Link reply #74)
Kate 11th March 1856, sponsors John & Ellen Hennessy
Laurence 12th June 1858, sponsors John Dwyer & Cath. Whitstone
Alice 19th March 1862, sponsors John Merrick & Margaret Ga... (possibly Galvin)

Alice is the last child of the marriage we've found so far. If there were births 1864 or later they could be cross-checked with baptisms to establish residence/townland.
Judging by the births, it seems to me that Jer & Bridget Dwyer remained in the parish from their wedding and for most of 1850s and were still there in 1861/2. I doubt if either of them emigrated.

Among Jeremiah Dwyer entries in Tipperary on Griffiths' Valuation was 1 in Ballough townland, civil parish Templeneiry. I concentrated on that because a Bridget Dwyer of Ballough was daughter of a Jeremiah Dwyer, marriage 1889 to William Sampson (reply #64). Jeremy Dwyer occupied a house, offices and 32 acres of land. Michael Dwyer and William Dwyer were also occupiers in the townland. There were 787 acres in the townland, divided into 21 holdings.

Marriages of children of Jeremiah Dwyer:
 Bridget to William Sampson 1889. Bridget's residence was Ballough. (Link reply #64)
 Thomas 1889 (This wife died a year later after birth of their only child.) 1899 to a Dwyer bride. (Replies #79 & 80) A witness to one marriage was Alice O'Dwyer. Jeremiah was alive in 1889 as per marriage registrations.

Death registrations:
Bridget Dwyer 1873 Tipperary SRD, Bansha Reg. District.  Farmer's wife, died at Ballough, age 52. (Reply #82)
Jeremiah Dwyer 1893 Tipperary SRD, Bansha Reg. District. Died at Ballough. Widowed farmer, age 85. Informant son Thomas. (Reply #78)

Thomas Dwyer, Jeremiah's son, remained at Ballough and was there for 1901 & 1911 censuses. There were other Dwyer households there, some headed by widows.

This is so far only conjecture that the Jeremiah Dwyer who married Bridget Hennessy was the same Jeremiah who lived and died at Ballough. It's also conjecture that the Bridget Dwyer who died in 1873 in Ballough townland was the wife of Jeremiah.

Summing up:
There is no firm (i.e. primary written) evidence from the above that the Bridget Hennessy who married Jeremiah Dwyer was the daughter of Thomas Hennessy of Lisvarranne as neither names of fathers nor residences of groom or bride were noted in the church marriage register.
However names of some of Bridget & Jer's children (Bridget, Thomas, Laurence, Alice) were same as some members of Thomas & Bridget Hennessy family. A baptism sponsor was Laurence Hennessy. (Caveat, Laurence may have been a common name locally.)
Jer & Bridget Dwyer seem to have remained in Tipperary after their marriage and for most of 1850s. It's unlikely that they went to U.S. Bridget was still in Tipperary in 1862 (baptism of Alice).
If Jeremiah, husband of Bridget Hennessy, was the same Jeremiah who lived in Ballough townland, he died there in 1893. If it was the same Jeremiah, Bridget may have died there in 1873.

   

 

[Maiden Stone]

We have found a Bridget Hennessy referred to on the gravestone marrying a Jeremiah Dwyer then moving to Bansha and subsequently having their children there. 


Bridget Hennessy Welch/Walsh dies in Westfield and is buried in Manchester.  Do you have a date and is there a gravestone? 
 

1. Clarification.
The information on Find a Grave website is that Bridget Hennessy, daughter of Thomas of Lisservane, married "unknown Dwyer". It also said that one of her sisters married "unknown Walsh". It didn't say that Bridget's husband was called Jeremiah. It also has names of spouses of other siblings and emigration information about some. All it said about Bridget is that her husband was Dwyer. What is the source of the information on that Find a Grave entry? How reliable is it? There was a suggestion in a reply a few days ago (by shanreagh ?) that surname of Bridget's husband may have been mixed up with that of her sister.
The link to Find a Grave was posted by TimothyMc on a FamilySearch forum. He follows it up with the information that a Bridget Hennessy married Jeremiah Dwyer in 1846.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rq7/
The Bridget Hennessy who married Jeremiah Dwyer in Tipperary/Limerick in 1846 remained in Ireland having children with Jeremiah. She can't be the Bridget Hennessy who went to America and married John Walsh.
Bridget Hennessy, wife of Jeremiah Dwyer may or may not have been a daughter of Thomas Hennessy of Lisservanne.

2. I recall seeing a photo of Bridget Hennessy Walsh's grave. There might be a link in a previous reply.
Added. Reply 113 from Lisa.

[Maiden Stone]

Among Jeremiah Dwyer entries in Tipperary on Griffiths' Valuation was 1 in Ballough townland, civil parish Templeneiry. I concentrated on that because a Bridget Dwyer of Ballough was daughter of a Jeremiah Dwyer, marriage 1889 to William Sampson (reply #64). Jeremy Dwyer occupied a house, offices and 32 acres of land. Michael Dwyer and William Dwyer were also occupiers in the townland. There were 787 acres in the townland, divided into 21 holdings.   

Looked again at Griffiths.
Jeremiah Dwyer had 3 subtenants in houses with gardens on the land he occupied in Ballagh townland.
2 other townlands in Templeneiry civil parish had occupiers named Jeremiah Dwyer.
3 entries in Ballydavid townland  + 2 entries for William Dwyer (Jer). William would have been a son of a Jeremiah Dwyer. Another William (Wm) had 2 holdings; that William was son of a William.
1 holding in Boleen townland

Jeremiah Dwyer who married Bridget Henry might have been any of the above Jeremiah Dwyers.

Templeneiry is the civil parish associated with Bansha & Kilmoyler R.C. parish, where children of Jer & Bridget Dwyer were baptised. 

[Maiden Stone]

An example of how common the Dwyer surname was in the area.
Marriage in Bansha registration district 1865
Jeremiah Dwyer 28 farmer Ballymorris; father William (deceased)
Alice Dwyer full age spinster                 father Jeremiah Dwyer, farmer
I can guess what they called one of their sons!.

I also noticed a Dwyer man marrying a Dwyer widow.