DNA & STILL A BRICK WALL

[shanreagh]

Lisa you may feel as though things are confused but this is just the kind of thinking that will be useful in getting to the bottom of the story.  I feel that once it is all set out that it will be a fascinating one. 

I had the thought  that Edward may be the child of a person other than John Walsh and came on here tonight to ask Deb:
1 if the families of the other children of John & Bridget have had their DNA done? 
2  Has the tracing back to Ireland been done for them?  have they found any differences? 
3  Also wondering if any contact has been made with the present resident in Ireland families descended from Thomas and Bridget Hennessy?   

[Lisa in California]

shanreagh, I will try to think of questions for Deb as well.

I don’t like to give up until there is no hope and I’m not there yet.  I think we may still be able to find something.

[shanreagh]

The life of the child Bridget dau of Jeremiah Dwyer and Bridget Hennessy Dwyer is puzzling.  She was born in 1847. 

If this is the daughter of Bridget Hennessy Walsh then what would have been the reason for not bringing her to the US?  Could she have come over with Jeremiah and Bridget and then gone back with her father, or been left in Ireland to come later?  Did her mother leave both husband and daughter? 

I have found the baptism of Bridget Dwyer bapt 19/1/1847
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632650#page/139/mode/1up
The sponsors were Michael and Margaret Dwyer

Just above and the day before is a baptism of a Bridget Dwyer born to William Dwyer and Bridget Bourke with a single sponsor of Johanna Neill.

So there are 3 Bridget Dywers in the Parish of Bansha and Kilmoyler.  I will be careful!

Yeek another Bridget Dwyer in Bansha,  the dau of John Dwyer and Margaret Dwyer bapt 6/7/1850

I have found a Michael Dwyer son of Jer Dwyer and Bridget Hennessy bapt 5/6/1854 Bansha and Kilmoyler
Sponsors Lar Hennessy (Laurence?) and Cath No second name may be the wife of Lar?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632650#page/174/mode/1up

This is an odd record it refers to a person with multiple aliases James, Jer Hennessy or Dwyer who was 29 and imprisoned in Carrick on Suir. The record needs to be looked at a local Family History Centre. 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6891-22RY


Children
Thomas Dwyer bapt 15/9/1851 to Jer & Bridget Bansha
William Dwyer bapt 16/3/1848
Laurence Dwyer bapt 12/1/1858
Kate Dwyer bapt 11/3 1856

Now comes the doubt/puzzle??

Alicia Dwyer bapt 19/3/1862 - NB Alice was the name of the sister of Bridget who married an unk Walsh and went to Australia. 

Many reasons
Our Bridget is not part of the Bridget Cleary/Thomas Hennessy family?
But I think there is DNA back to one or rather of this couple

There are several Bridget Hennessys and one married a Walsh and one a Dwyer
The children especially the older one/s in the US belong to John Walsh and another mother? 

[Maiden Stone]

Received a message from Deb late last night which she asked me to pass on. Her computer has died. She's currently setting up essentials like email and banking on her iPad. She won't be back on RootsChat until she has a replacement computer. 

[Maiden Stone]

The life of the child Bridget dau of Jeremiah Dwyer and Bridget Hennessy Dwyer is puzzling.  She was born in 1847. 

If this is the daughter of Bridget Hennessy Walsh then what would have been the reason for not bringing her to the US?  Could she have come over with Jeremiah and Bridget and then gone back with her father, or been left in Ireland to come later?  Did her mother leave both husband and daughter? 

I have found the baptism of Bridget Dwyer bapt 19/1/1847
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632650#page/139/mode/1up
The sponsors were Michael and Margaret Dwyer

Just above and the day before is a baptism of a Bridget Dwyer born to William Dwyer and Bridget Bourke with a single sponsor of Johanna Neill.

So there are 3 Bridget Dywers in the Parish of Bansha and Kilmoyler.  I will be careful!

Yeek another Bridget Dwyer in Bansha,  the dau of John Dwyer and Margaret Dwyer bapt 6/7/1850

I have found a Michael Dwyer son of Jer Dwyer and Bridget Hennessy bapt 5/6/1854 Bansha and Kilmoyler
Sponsors Lar Hennessy (Laurence?) and Cath No second name may be the wife of Lar?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632650#page/174/mode/1up


Children
Thomas Dwyer bapt 15/9/1851 to Jer & Bridget Bansha
William Dwyer bapt 16/3/1848
Laurence Dwyer bapt 12/1/1858
Kate Dwyer bapt 11/3 1856

Now comes the doubt/puzzle??

Alicia Dwyer bapt 19/3/1862 - NB Alice was the name of the sister of Bridget who married an unk Walsh and went to Australia. 


There are several Bridget Hennessys and one married a Walsh and one a Dwyer

Kate Dwyer baptised 11th March 1856, son of Jer. Dwyer & Bridget Hennessy; sponsors John & Ellen Hennesy
Laurence Dwyer baptised 12th January 1858 son of Jer. Dwyer & Bridget Hennessy; sponsors John Dwyer & Cath. Whitstone
Alicia Dwyer baptised 19th March 1862 daughter of Jer. Dwyer & Bridget Hennessy; sponsors John Merrick (?) & Margt Ga..... (Galvin?)*
* It looks to me like Galvin. When I was browsing register for more Dwyer entries I noticed a Margaret Galvin was sponsor for a James Dwyer 9th July 1864, different parents.

Unfortunately the baptism register doesn't give residences.
My impression from looking at the register is that those children belonged to the same Jeremiah & Bridget (Hennessy) Dwyer. If that's the case, they were in Tipperary until at least 1862. Unless another Jeremiah Dwyer married another Bridget Hennessy.
I counted 10 Dwyer baptisms in 1862 and one year there were 3 in 1 month.

i looked at surname distribution for Dwyer, Hennessy and Walsh on "Irish Ancestor Wizard" and on S. Wilson.Info websites.
Irish Ancestor Wizard
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=HENNESSY
Number of households on Griffiths Valuation:
Tipperary 191; County Cork 310; Cork City 19; Limerick 134; Laois 56

https://www.swilson.info
Surname Distribution c.1850 Colour-coded on map + numbers of households
Dwyer: Counties Tipperary 354 (Tipperary is deep-blue on map); Limerick 225; Cork 197; Queens (Laois) 36;
Hennessy: Tipperary 72 (different to number on Irish Ancestors Wizard); Cork 334; Limerick 128; Queens 57
Walsh: Every county. Tipperary 662, Cork 1,366; Queens 214; Limerick 387. Counties with most entries were Kilkenny, Cork and Mayo.
Both websites have a surname cross reference facility. Can search for civil parishes where 2 selected surnames appear. Surname cross reference on S. Wilson's site is based on Grifffiths' Primary Valuation.

   

[Maiden Stone]

So there are 3 Bridget Dywers in the Parish of Bansha and Kilmoyler.  I will be careful!

Yeek another Bridget Dwyer in Bansha,  the dau of John Dwyer and Margaret Dwyer bapt 6/7/1850


Children
Thomas Dwyer bapt 15/9/1851 to Jer & Bridget Bansha
William Dwyer bapt 16/3/1848

Adding sponsors for those baptisms.
William Dwyer 16th March 1848 sponsors John Dwyer & Joanna Walsh
Thomas Dwyer 15th September 1851 sponsors Jer ? O Leary & Mary (Quaker? or Quirke?)

Considering the pattern of births. 14 months between Bridget, 1st child and William, 2nd child. Next 4 children, Thomas, Michael, Kate and Laurence had gaps of 1 year 9 months - 2 years 8 months between births. Then there was a 4 year gap between Laurence (1858) and Alice (1862), the last child found so far. (Decreasing fertility? Miscarriage/s? Stillborn baby?) If Bridget Hennessy married Jer Dwyer when she was in her teens or early 20's, she would have been in her 30s when Alice was born.

Dwyer seems a common name in that parish. I noticed a Dwyer-Dwyer marriage + 2 consecutive weddings with a groom named Tom Dwyer.   

[Maiden Stone]

Still following the family of Jeremiah Dwyer & Bridget.
 Jer was presumed alive when Bridget, his daughter married Mr Sampson in 1889. (shanreagh reply 64 )
A likely death registration for Jeremiah Dwyer 1893 Bansha district, County Tipperary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06001/4707688.pdf
He was a widowed farmer, recorded age at death 85. Died at Ballough. Informant was Thomas, his son, residence Ballough.
Daughter Bridget's residence was Ballough when she married.

I tried looking for death registration of Bridget Dwyer, Jer's wife,  between 1864 and 1893 (assuming she died after start of death registrations) but was put off by the numbers.

[Maiden Stone]

Still following the family of Jeremiah Dwyer & Bridget.
 Jer was presumed alive when Bridget, his daughter married Mr Sampson in 1889. (shanreagh reply 64 )
A likely death registration for Jeremiah Dwyer 1893 Bansha district, County Tipperary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06001/4707688.pdf
He was a widowed farmer, recorded age at death 85. Died at Ballough. Informant was Thomas, his son, residence Ballough.
Daughter Bridget's residence was Ballough when she married.

Thomas Dwyer, son of Jeremiah, remained at Ballough.
 1901 census with wife Joanna + sons Jeremiah & baby John. Joanna was mother of baby John but not of Jeremiah. Thomas married Bridget Tobin in 1889. (Both "aged" on marriage registration.) A witness was John O'Dwyer. Jeremiah was born in December 1889. Bridget died 3rd January 1990, aged 24. Thomas married Joanna Dwyer 1899. Her father was Thomas Dwyer. Witnesses Michael & Maggie Dwyer.
1911 census Thomas was still at Ballough with wife Hannah & 6 children.

1901 census Bridget Sampson aged 50 & husband William in Tipperary Rural. No children with them. Same couple seem to have remained in Tipperary for 1911 census. 

[Maiden Stone]

Again poss a marriage in Bausha 5/3/1889 to a William Sampson  Got no idea of age except the registrar has written 'aged' in the column for age! Her father is shown as Jer Dwyer, farmer and may have been still alive as the husband's father has dec'd written in.
She is a farmer from Ballough
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910910.pdf

"Aged" may have meant of full age i.e. over 21. It's been written in the age column for everyone whose marriage was registered on that day. One would have to look at other pages of the register to see if the registrar was in the habit of writing "aged" for everyone over 21. It might have meant they were no longer young.
   

Writing "aged" seems to have been typical of whoever was registering marriages in the district at that time. Thomas Dwyer, son of Jeremiah, married Bridget Tobin, Feb. 1889. Both had "aged" in the age column, as did other brides and grooms on the page.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910909.pdf
 Bridget Dwyer, wife of Thomas, died January 1890, after childbirth. Her age at death was recorded as 24.
When Thomas married again in 1899 his age was stated in years.

I noticed a witness to wedding of Bridget Dwyer & William Sampson was Alice O'Dwyer.