DNA & STILL A BRICK WALL

[shanreagh]

Thomas Hennessy, the father died  April 1851, aged 71

Timothy Hennessy, son died 18/1/1892
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06045/4722301.pdf

Laurence died  29/9/1895 1895 aged 79 at Lisvarrinane.  Death reported by son Laurence.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rq9/


John Hennessy died 2/5/1899 he was a bachelor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05796/4639850.pdf death reported by Laurence Hennessy, poss the son of Laurence above

Mary Hennessy Naughton, not sure if she immigrated but this may be her death record if she did not. It has not been imaged
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rq8/

The records for
Alice (m. unk Walsh) imm. to Australia,
could be useful to find.  there may be trees that can be found and we might find that the Walsh that Alice married may have some connection to John Walsh

[shanreagh]

Looking at the parish register i still am not able to find the marriage in 1845 but just in February for this area there are several Walsh names as witnesses to marriages
eg
John and Michael Walsh and Matthew Givens witnessing Michael Byron(?) and Ellen Kiely, witnessing Thomas ?? and Bridget Walsh were James Walsh 18/10/1845,
John Walsh to Catherine Blackburn
Eliza Hennessy witnesses 7/2/1846 Michael Hanrahan and Mary Nagle

And .....Found it
21/2/1846
Jeremiah Dwyer to Bridget Hennesy witnessed by Thomas Hennesy and Thady Hennesy
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632715#page/212/mode/1up

Now Thomas Hennessy may be the father (he died 1851 and Thady the brother (Timothy)

This is all supposition so far.

On 19/1/1847 Bridget Dwyer is baptised dau of Jeremiah Dwyer and Bridget Henessy
Bansha and Kilmoyler, County Tipperary, Ireland

Again poss a marriage in Bausha 5/3/1889 to a William Sampson (Laurence Hennessy married a Kate Sampson and Catherine Hennessy married a Robert Sampson - these were Bridget Hennessy Walsh's siblings.  ) Got no idea of age except the registrar has written 'aged' in the column for age! Her father is shown as Jer Dwyer, farmer and may have been still alive as the husband's father has dec'd written in.
She is a farmer from Ballough
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910910.pdf

Bridget Sampson dies aged 70 on 27/7/1915. 

[Maiden Stone]

Deb has also said 'My older siblings remember him (her father the grandson of John & Bridget) saying his people were from "Queen's". '  I have taken that to mean the former Queens County Ireland now Co Laois. 

Although it may have meant Queens borough, New York.

[Maiden Stone]

Again poss a marriage in Bausha 5/3/1889 to a William Sampson (Laurence Hennessy married a Kate Sampson and Catherine Hennessy married a Robert Sampson - these were Bridget Hennessy Walsh's siblings.  ) Got no idea of age except the registrar has written 'aged' in the column for age! Her father is shown as Jer Dwyer, farmer and may have been still alive as the husband's father has dec'd written in.
She is a farmer from Ballough
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910910.pdf

"Aged" may have meant of full age i.e. over 21. It's been written in the age column for everyone whose marriage was registered on that day. One would have to look at other pages of the register to see if the registrar was in the habit of writing "aged" for everyone over 21. It might have meant they were no longer young.
All brides and grooms on the page have farmer as occupation.   

[Lisa in California]

Deb has also said 'My older siblings remember him (her father the grandson of John & Bridget) saying his people were from "Queen's". '  I have taken that to mean the former Queens County Ireland now Co Laois. 

Although it may have meant Queens borough, New York.

We don’t live near New York but over the decades I’ve heard friends and other people mention Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc.  I could easily imagine someone telling his/her family that they were from Queens.

However, my humble feeling is unless there were at least a couple of generations born in New York why might he have said “my people”?  Wouldn’t he have more likely said “my father (grandfather?) was born in/from Queens”?

Every family is different, but I am almost positive that a couple of my mum’s family members also used the term “our people”.  My mum’s uncle had the family bible (which was lost before my birth)  and when my mum was young and would question what was written, she was told our people were from Donegal. (Her grandfather lived in New Jersey, USA a few years before the family settled in Canada.)

Perhaps in Deb’s family’s case, over the years the wording has been changed and maybe the original statement might not have even included “our people”. Who knows, eh?


Added:  I was thinking about our family bible; it wasn’t lost prior to my birth.  The last time my mum saw it was when she was a child.  But, her cousin actually inherited it.  I remember writing to the cousin during the 1980’s, asking for family information.  Sadly, she always had a reason why she couldn’t help me.  No one knows where the bible went - according to my mum, it had names, dates and places.   

[shanreagh]

Agree with Lisa.  Relatively newly arrived people would still be hearkening from 'home' and possibly yearning for it. They would pass this info on to their children. 

'I am from Queens' from a person born in the US would possibly be more likely to be Queens Borough.
'My people' or  'our people' or even 'we are' from Queens is slightly different as it encompasses more generations/people than me the speaker.   

In NZ we have people, me included, who answer differently to the questions 'where are you from? and 'where do you live?". Where are your people from I would say 'Ireland and Denmark on my mother's side and England on my father's side'

My Grandmother born 1874 in Co Londonderry always said she was from the north of Ireland or Co Londonderry, or if the person gave an indication that they knew Derry, then the village,  even though she had been in NZ since 1886.

I think it is worth a look for Walshes in Co Laois. 

[Lisa in California]

…I have a cousin who is also doing research and thinks the John in Tippecanoe is not ours!  I discovered the find and I don't know why she thinks that!  Michael was logged as John's father.  I didn't put that in there either.  Family and researchers had "contributor" rights…

Apologies if there are slight errors in the following; I’m not taking the time to double-check entries as it is difficult switching between census records and here.

Your (Deb’s) tree shows:
1850  John, age 23 (born c1827).  Bridget, age 19 (born c1831).
1860  John, age 37 (born c1823).  Bridget, age 30 (born c1830).
1870  John, age 48 (born c1822).  Bridget, age 40 (born c1830).
1880  Bridget, age 48 (born c1832).

I wonder if the John and Bridget in 1850 were actually your couple?
In 1850, they were recorded living in Lafayette, Tippecanoe, Indiana census.

I wonder if this couple was actually the 1850 couple?
1850  John, age 23 (born c1827).  Bridget, age 19 (born c1831).
Bridget might have died between 1850 and 1856.
John marries Mary O’Shea in 1856.
1860 John, age 30, Mary, age 29.  Living in Lafayette, Tippecanoe, Indiana.
John’s headstone states he died in 1892, age 65 (born c1827). 
Obit about this John Welch and his family: https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rqd/

If the above John and Bridget/Mary were actually the folks from the 1850 census then where might we find your John and Bridget? Ireland? New York?  Somewhere else?

[Lisa in California]

I have been searching for my Great Grandfather John Welch/Walsh on and off since I was 21 yrs old…I have all kinds of info on John here in the U.S.  Its like he, his wife Bridget Hennessy Welch dropped out of the clear blue sky into Delaware Co. IA.  There is no story for him before that.  All census says he was born in Ireland, cannot read or write. However one of his children, now deceased, said he was born in New York. DNA is not finding anyone of significance in Ireland or anywhere!  So many John Welch's immigrating here, I don't know which one is mine!  He was born approx 1823 and died in Dec of 1871 in Iowa.  Lots of info on him here, but have no info regarding Ireland.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/39105428/person/322064324934/facts
…

« Reply #37 on: Friday 29 July 22 18:52 BST (UK) »
Ebby is a census error.  Ebby/Elmo was actually Edward, my grandfather. He always gave his birthplace as Iowa in his adult census.  His birthdate, on record is August 30th 1855.

I think I’ve lost the plot  but wasn’t Edward the one who was supposedly from Queens/New York (and not John as mentioned above)?  It’s late here; maybe I’m not thinking correctly.

The following or at least part of the following I believe was already mentioned but worth thinking about again…
Deb, according to one reply, has not found DNA matches for Welch. Could Edward and possibly younger siblings have a different father which could be one reason Deb cannot find Welch DNA matches?  Possibly Edward WAS born in New York and Edward’s biological father’s family lived there for two or more generations?    Maybe John, in error, stated that “Ebby” was born in Ireland or the enumerator really had a problem incorrectly recording the name, gender and birthplace for little Edward.

Added:  Deb, have you checked for DNA matches for Dwyers?

[Lisa in California]

…Found it
21/2/1846
Jeremiah Dwyer to Bridget Hennesy witnessed by Thomas Hennesy and Thady Hennesy
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632715#page/212/mode/1up

On 19/1/1847 Bridget Dwyer is baptised dau of Jeremiah Dwyer and Bridget Henessy
Bansha and Kilmoyler, County Tipperary, Ireland

…Again poss a marriage in Bausha 5/3/1889 to a William Sampson (Laurence Hennessy married a Kate Sampson and Catherine Hennessy married a Robert Sampson - these were Bridget Hennessy Walsh's siblings.  ) Got no idea of age except the registrar has written 'aged' in the column for age! Her father is shown as Jer Dwyer, farmer and may have been still alive as the husband's father has dec'd written in.
She is a farmer from Ballough
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10726/5910910.pdf

Bridget Sampson dies aged 70 on 27/7/1915.

Could this be Jeremiah?
Massachusetts Naturalization Record (from Ancestry, have not yet found it on FamilySearch)
Jeremiah Dwyer.  Petition Age 22
Born 23 Jul 1833, Killimore, Tipperary, Ireland
Arrival Date: 10 May 1850, New York
Petition Date: 1855


Hang on, there may have been TWO Jeremiah Dwyer’s from Tipperary arriving within one year of each other.  Unless he sailed twice?

The 1850 arrival can’t be him; he would have been born before 1833!

Time to turn in for the night.