Where is my great grandfather???

[Neale1961]

Given that Joseph claims to have worked at both Kynoch’s and BSA for over 12 years, during the Boer war, and before coming to Australia, he must have been there during the 1901 census and earlier. The munitions factories and the “gun quarter” were in the Aston district of Birmingham. This is also where Joseph’s future wife May Claridge was living. Therefore, I have concentrated my search specifically on Aston Birmingham.
Although there are a few Parks families around, the name Philip Parkes is not so common. Also the name Phoebe Sanders is not very common.
We do find a possible Phoebe Sanders and a possible Philip Parkes in Aston at the right time, but is there any connection?

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Phoebe SANDERS born 1846 Aston, Birmingham to Charles SANDERS (a wire drawer) and Sarah WARREN
In 1865 Phoebe married Thomas KELLY (KELLEY), a labourer, born 1841 either Worcestershire or Ireland.
4 children born to Phoebe and Thomas Kelly registered in Aston Birmingham :-
•   William Henry 1866
•   Henry 1870
•   Sarah 1871
•   Joseph 1874 (GRO Reference: 1874  S Quarter in ASTON  Volume 06D  Page 284)

In the 1871 census Phoebe is with her husband Thomas and her first 2 children living in Aston, Birmingham
What happened to Thomas and the children after that ? – they seem to disappear. Can anyone find the son named Joseph born 1874?

By 1881 census Phoebe has become “wife” of John Henry FISHER (Was not able to find a marriage)
In 1891 census Phoebe is still living in Aston with John FISHER.
5 Children born to Phoebe and John Fisher registered in Aston:
•   Elizabeth Sarah 1879
•   Alice 1881
•   John 1882
•   Phoebe 1886
•   John Henry 1888

Phoebe (Sanders – Kelly) FISHER died 1893 Birmingham

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From Reply #61 from sparrett 15 July

Philip Edwin PARKES born 1853. He was the ‘plane / tool maker”.
In the 1871 census Philip is single, living with his family in Aston. It is possible he fathered an illegitimate child born 1874.
By 1881 Philip has partnered with Mary Ann PALMER, and their first child was born October 1874.
Note: Philip and Mary Ann did not marry until 1890.
Philip died in 1930.

[sparrett]

Hi All,
I have been working through  much of the above information with Neale over the last few days (by PM )

I believe this to be the most likely correct couple.

I am speculating that there was a relationship between Philip and Phoebe preceding the second marriage/partnership of both.

Sue

[Dundee]

What happened to Thomas and the children after that ? – they seem to disappear. Can anyone find the son named Joseph born 1874?

Great minds think alike.  Aren't they in the Bromsgrove Union Workhouse in 1881?

Piece: 2940
Folio: 127
Page Number: 5

Debra 

[Neale1961]

Yes, Debra. That does appear to be them, even though ages not quite right and incorrect birth place. I wonder how long they had been in the workhouse.
Where are they after that?

[Dundee]

I thought that Joseph KELLY might be the one who married Mabel Eva NEEDHAM in Derbyshire in 1900, father Thomas, a labourer.  In 1901 he is born in Birmingham, in 1911 he is born in Bromsgrove.

Debra 

[sparrett]

This is getting complicated..
On the 1890 marriage of Mary Ann PALMER and Philip PARKES, witness is JOHN FISHER the same name as the "husband" of Phoebe KELLY.

Ancestry link. The image marriage of PARKES and PALMER 1890
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/4994/images/40458_316788-00131
Sue

[Neale1961]

I thought that Joseph KELLY might be the one who married Mabel Eva NEEDHAM in Derbyshire in 1900, father Thomas, a labourer.  In 1901 he is born in Birmingham, in 1911 he is born in Bromsgrove.

Debra 

Yes, it does look as if that is the same Joseph .... and there is another Joseph eliminated. 

[sparrett]

Yes,  it does look like wrong track again 

Sue

[Neale1961]

On the 1890 marriage of Mary Ann PALMER and Philip PARKES, witness is JOHN FISHER the same name as the "husband" of Phoebe KELLY.

That is an interesting find Sue, but I am not convinced he is Phoebe's partner John Fisher. His signature is different when he witnesses the marriage of his daughter, Elizabeth Sarah in 1896.
I don't think it is the link we need between Phoebe and Philip.