Author Topic: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery  (Read 1275 times)

Offline grovesfamily

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 09:47 BST (UK) »
From what I can see, there are two Mary Elizabeth Groves who are buried in Harehills Cemetery in Leeds. One in 1935 and one in 1936.

1935 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/226745279/mary-elizabeth-groves?_gl=1*1dltk4*_ga*MTI2MTA5ODQyMS4xNjM0MDkwNjIx*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY1NzAwNTQ1NC43NS4xLjE2NTcwMTA2NDguMA..

1936  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/212445120/mary-elizabeth-groves?_gl=1*14jtkvm*_ga*MTI2MTA5ODQyMS4xNjM0MDkwNjIx*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY1NzAwNTQ1NC43NS4xLjE2NTcwMTA2OTIuMA..

Both are in April. One mentions Avison, but the other, without a mention of Avison, shows a husband named Alfred Groves. Is this possible that this is the same Mary Elizabeth Groves, but the year is a typo? We can see from the photo of the headstone that Mary Elizabeth Groves died April 1936 (wife of Alfred Groves), but the burial entry for the year prior mentions AVISON but that its not on the headstone. Confusing!


Offline grovesfamily

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 09:59 BST (UK) »
Was bigamy a common phenomenon during the late Victorian era?

Online fiddlerslass

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 10:39 BST (UK) »
1901 census Leeds, Alfred Groves with wife Mary E, children, Eveline, Gertrude, George, Frederick, all have mother's maiden name as GOSPELL.
freebmd has marriage registration at Pocklington sept 1884 of Alfred Groves and Mary Elizabeth Godspell
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder, Straka & others from Czechia

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 11:00 BST (UK) »
1901 census Leeds, Alfred Groves with wife Mary E, children, Eveline, Gertrude, George, Frederick, all have mother's maiden name as GOSPELL.
freebmd has marriage registration at Pocklington sept 1884 of Alfred Groves and Mary Elizabeth Godspell

I looked at the 1911 census and found the same info. as you fiddlersglass

Mary Elizabeth Groves  b1857 Allerthorpe Yorks is with her married husband  Alfred (cartman) and 4 of their children on 1911c

Evelyn Muriel Gospell Groves (1891)
Gertrude Mary Groves (1893)
George Alfred Groves (1897)
John Frederick Groves (1900) - Frederick John 1899 - GRO
Checking GRO indexes they all have the same mmn GOSPELL

GOSPEL, MARY  ELIZABETH     mmn HOWE 
1857  M Quarter in Pocklington  Volume 09D  Page 64

Sep 1884                    
Gospell   Mary Elizabeth      Pocklington   9d   109   
GROVES   Alfred              Pocklington   9d   109   

Index only

Marriage 12 Jul 1884 Allerthorpe By Pocklington,York
Mary Elizabeth Gospell  father George Gospell
Spouse:   Alfred Groves father George Groves

Edit to add baptism of one of their children

Evelyn Muriel Gospel Groves
Baptism 30 Nov 1890 Leeds, Christ Church, Yorkshire
Father:   Alfred Groves, miller Mother: Mary Elizabeth

Evelyn married William Ambler on 5th August 1916 age 25 , father Alfred, Clerk
Witnesses were Alfred Groves & Gertrude Mary Groves
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Online fiddlerslass

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 11:10 BST (UK) »
From marriage in 1876, Mary E Avison is daughter of Samuel, a blacksmith, age 19.

1871 census, Ordsall Notts
Samuel Avison 39 Engine Blacksmith Saggerthorpe? yks
ann wife 35
Mary Eliz 13 Sheffield Yks
Thomas 10 Manchester
Douglas 4 Leeds
Samuel junior 2 Barton on Humber Linc's

Family is in Sheffield 1881, Mary E is not with them.

perhaps try a search just for Mary born Sheffield in 1881 census to see if she turns up as a "wife" to someone else!
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder, Straka & others from Czechia

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 11:12 BST (UK) »
1901 census Leeds, Alfred Groves with wife Mary E, children, Eveline, Gertrude, George, Frederick, all have mother's maiden name as GOSPELL.
freebmd has marriage registration at Pocklington sept 1884 of Alfred Groves and Mary Elizabeth Godspell

for info. 1891 census Piece:   3683 Folio:   120

Alf Groves   30   Head
M E Groves 34   Wife Alverthorpe
E M G Groves 8   Daughter
Anna Gospell 20   Sister-in-law
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 11:46 BST (UK) »
Mary Elizabeth Avison is living in with her family in 1871
Thrumpton, Ordsall, East Retford, Nottinghamshire, England
Samuel Avison, 39, engine blacksmith
Ann Avison, 35
Mary Elizabeth , 13
Thomas, 10
Douglas 4
Samuel John 2

Samuel John Avison, reg 1868, Glanford Brigg, Lincs, MMN DOUGLAS

In 1881 Samuel and Ann are with listed children Douglas, William (9) and Isabella (4), no sign of Mary Elizabeth. Isabella birth is registered in 1876 with MMN Douglas, but Ann would’ve been 44, not unheard of, but I wonder if she was born to ME?

Another interesting note…
2 Feb 1878, Leeds Times
BAXTER-GROVES- 29th January, at the Registry Office Leeds, Joe Baxter, warp-dresser, to Mary Elizabeth Groves, both of Leeds.
Modified- Children are registered with MMN Groves, so not your ME.


Or…
26 Aug 1874 York Herald
A PRECIOUS QUARTET - William Buckland and Henry Bevan, deserters from the 12th Lancers, and Clara Mitchell and Mary Elizabeth Avison, prostitutes, were charged before the Scarbro’ magistrates, yesterday, with being in Scarbro’ for the purpose of committing a felony. The two male prisoners were remanded until an escort arrived to take them to Manchester. The females were discharged on promising to leave town.




Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 05 July 22 12:15 BST (UK) »
There is a Mary Elizabeth Groves birth registered

GROVES, MARY  ELIZABETH     JOHNSON 
GRO Reference: 1857  D Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 09B  Page 354

So that Baxter/Groves marriage could be this lady.

Looking at the 1871 census I don't think this Mary is anything to do with the Mary who married Henry.

Living at Beckett Street, East, Leeds, Yorkshire with parents John & Harriet.  Marriage of John & Harriet looks to be JQ 1843 Leeds.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline grovesfamily

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Re: Henry "Harry" GROVES b. 1854 Leeds: a mystery
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 09 July 22 06:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your time, interest and research. i am still non the wiser when it comes to Harry's first wife ME but I'm putting it down to bigamy (for now). i will take a look at death certificates for ME and see what i can find.