1911 Census Sheet

[Andy J2022]

As a bit of trivia, while we are constantly reminded that census information is subject to Crown Copyright,  the actual blank census forms for the 1911 and 1921 census are in fact no longer in copyright. This is because the duration for Crown Copyright is 125 years from the date the work was made, or 75 years from the date the work concerned was first published. By definition since these forms were sent to every household shortly before the census date, they were published more than 75 years ago, and so the blank forms are now out of copyright. The same does not apply to the filled-in forms since they have only been published more recently (ie 2012 and 2022 respectively) so the 75 year period has some way to go.

That having been said, the rules here are that all census information should be treated as being in copyright and so this should be respected.

[KGarrad]

I was always given to understand that it was the IMAGES that were copyright?
To Ancestry and Bright Solid (owners of FindMyPast) depending on where you see these images.

[toby webb]

Thank you all and particularly to you, Guy Etchells, for I now have everything I wanted. Good Old Roots Chat.  T

[Andy J2022]

The basic census information is Crown Copyright. The fact that FindMyPast have made digital copies of the pages is a separate issue. It is questionable whether these images attract a separate copyright since they were made by an entirely mechanical process (there are videos showing how this was done on Youtube), and therefore there is insufficient human creativity involved to bring about a new copyright in the images. The reason this is debatable is that FindMyPast would no doubt argue that the human element comes from the preparatory steps of preparing the pages (conservation etc) and the transcription afterwards. However neither of these activities actually impact on the making of the digital images, and thus according to guidance issued by the Government's Intellectual Property Office, the images are unlikely to attract copyright ( see the fifth paragraph of this guidance notice). The fact that FindMyPast (or BrightSolid) claim copyright doesn't make any difference as it's not illegal to claim it even when it doesn't actually exist. A court would have to decide the issue.

The transcriptions themselves are probably subject to copyright since the individuals doing the work have to use skill and experience to decide what the handwriting says, and this is evidence of their creative decisions. This similar to the work of a translator who most definitely is entitled to copyright in their work.

Because of the overall uncertainty, the rules that RootsChat have adopted rightly err on the side of caution.
 

[Guy Etchells]

The basic census information is Crown Copyright. The fact that FindMyPast have made digital copies of the pages is a separate issue. It is questionable whether these images attract a separate copyright since they were made by an entirely mechanical process (there are videos showing how this was done on Youtube), and therefore there is insufficient human creativity involved to bring about a new copyright in the images. The reason this is debatable is that FindMyPast would no doubt argue that the human element comes from the preparatory steps of preparing the pages (conservation etc) and the transcription afterwards. However neither of these activities actually impact on the making of the digital images, and thus according to guidance issued by the Government's Intellectual Property Office, the images are unlikely to attract copyright ( see the fifth paragraph of this guidance notice). The fact that FindMyPast (or BrightSolid) claim copyright doesn't make any difference as it's not illegal to claim it even when it doesn't actually exist. A court would have to decide the issue.

The transcriptions themselves are probably subject to copyright since the individuals doing the work have to use skill and experience to decide what the handwriting says, and this is evidence of their creative decisions. This similar to the work of a translator who most definitely is entitled to copyright in their work.

Because of the overall uncertainty, the rules that RootsChat have adopted rightly err on the side of caution.
 

The images are not copyright as Crown copyright was waived by the government in 2000 on such forms.

Incidentally if any copyright ever existed on the information supplied by the householder on census images and indeed other forms such as certificates the information would not be held under Crown Copyright but would be the copyright of the individual who supplied the information and not the Crown.

I would also add that companies such as Findmypast, Ancestry, etc., etc. have terms and conditions that prohibit copying & publication of images they produce
Cheers
Guy