Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language

[softly softly]

Can anyone find them in 1861 census. One son born 1859, one son 1861 both Cardiff, daughter 1865 bristol.

What was the occupation of John Lewis when he married please.

John

[Rosegold89]

I find there is not much variation between the two scripts when reading German records through the 1800's.
Here is an article on Kurrent

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent

Here is one of my Barbara's, to show the writing,  in a  death register 1830 from the German speaking part of North Czechia, then part of Austro- Hungarian empire. Look under Februar

http://vademecum.soalitomerice.cz/vademecum/permalink?xid=09ddd7cea03b9b8d:30bdd2c7:1201ea2ef5b:-77c5&scan=a939464924a2457a965be3058b7ee39f

Thanks!

[Rosegold89]

The certificate was issued by the GRO, and the fact that it incorporates a photocopy indicates that it's a direct copy of the return submitted at the end of the relevant quarter - note the wording "a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of the Register...."

So this isn't Barbara's own handwriting, but a reproduction of it by whoever completed the return - and it looks like a pretty good attempt at that script. Because of the repeated pattern of letters in her name, it's possible that the extra 'b' appeared at the time of copying (it's missing in the name box above), so you'd need to check the original register to see how she did actually sign.

Ah right yeah we asked to see a copy of the original but think they said they couldn't find it

[Rosegold89]

Can anyone find them in 1861 census. One son born 1859, one son 1861 both Cardiff, daughter 1865 bristol.

What was the occupation of John Lewis when he married please.

John

He was a cooper. As far as I know they had four children; James, John, Jane and William. Living in Bristol when Jane was born but they lived in Cardiff a lot too. Maybe he worked around port areas? I've no idea how they met but they married in Cardiff. Also don't know about the 1861 census, we haven't been able to find any of them on it so far. I've considered maybe they travelled out of country somewhere, back to Germany perhaps?

[osprey]

Do you have the birth certificate for William to check the address? His birth was registered sept qtr 1861 Cardiff vol 11a pg 250. They could be at the same address for the census.

[Rosegold89]

Do you have the birth certificate for William to check the address? His birth was registered sept qtr 1861 Cardiff vol 11a pg 250. They could be at the same address for the census.

That's a good idea I don't think we have it but will try to get it ordered

[fiddlerslass]

Found them in 1871 in St Mary, Cardiff. John is widowed and has his widdowed mother with him.

28 Tyndale St ED 14, schedule 693, piece 5361, folio 117 page 51
John Lewis 43 master Cooper born Newport, Monmouth shire
Jane Williams 79 mother born Brecon, Wales
John Lewis 14 born Cardiff
James ".      12 ". "
William. "       9 ". "
Jane.      ".      6 Bristol

I do not see a death registration for a Barbara Lewis of the right age anywhere in England or Wales between 1865 (Janes birth) and 1871

[Karen McDonald]

Hi Rosegold,

Just a wee bit of info on German accents over letters, in case it might be of help in the future. 

As you probably know, umlauts are used in German: ä & ü.
If you are unable to type an umlaut, just add an "e" after the letter, i.e.: ae, ue.

To avoid "u" and "n" getting confused (in German script, this is possible), writers used to add a horizontal stroke above a "u". This was sometimes straight, sometimes almost half round.
Some writers still do this today, but it is becoming less popular. (As is actually writing using a pen, unfortunately... )

The thing is, people do not usually use the stroke above a "u" when signing their names. It is not normally a constituent of a signature. (There are, however, always exceptions to rules. )

I am therefore wondering whether Barbara's maiden name was actually Müth, because an umlaut is used in a signature if it contains a letter (or letters) which actually have an umlaut.

(I hope you can follow me! I know what I mean, but it is a bit tricky to explain it.)

I just wanted to mention this in case you are researching Barbara and are hitting brick walls. If that happens, try looking for Müth or Mueth.

Best regards,
Karen

[Rosegold89]

Hi Rosegold,

Just a wee bit of info on German accents over letters, in case it might be of help in the future. 

As you probably know, umlauts are used in German: ä & ü.
If you are unable to type an umlaut, just add an "e" after the letter, i.e.: ae, ue.

To avoid "u" and "n" getting confused (in German script, this is possible), writers used to add a horizontal stroke above a "u". This was sometimes straight, sometimes almost half round.
Some writers still do this today, but it is becoming less popular. (As is actually writing using a pen, unfortunately... )

The thing is, people do not usually use the stroke above a "u" when signing their names. It is not normally a constituent of a signature. (There are, however, always exceptions to rules. )

I am therefore wondering whether Barbara's maiden name was actually Müth, because an umlaut is used in a signature if it contains a letter (or letters) which actually have an umlaut.

(I hope you can follow me! I know what I mean, but it is a bit tricky to explain it.)

I just wanted to mention this in case you are researching Barbara and are hitting brick walls. If that happens, try looking for Müth or Mueth.

Best regards,
Karen

Thanks Karen yeah there's still nothing new turned up so far, maybe not that much German based stuff listed on Ancestry etc