Author Topic: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language  (Read 1531 times)

Offline Rosegold89

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« on: Saturday 21 May 22 20:01 BST (UK) »
My great great great grandmother Barbara Muth was said to be from Germany and I think she came to Britain at around the time of the German revolution. Working as a dressmaker in White Chapel on the 1851 census and then marrying in Cardiff a few years later. However on her marriage certificate it shows two different names. With the other one I can't quite understand the writing, not only that but judging by the accents on the letters it seems like it might be another language not German. Maybe it's possible she or her family came from one of the other Holy Roman Empire countries originally?

Online fiddlerslass

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,215
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 May 22 20:38 BST (UK) »
http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Sutterlin.htm

Barbara is the same spelling in German, but she seems to have written Barbarba. There is also a variant Bärbel. Surname is Muth in German script.
Czech and Slovak name for Barbara is Barbora.
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR
 & N. YKS,
Crawhall & Ions Weardale
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Straka & others from Czechia
Endesfelder from Saxony
Ripke from Poland

Online fiddlerslass

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,215
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 May 22 20:42 BST (UK) »
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR
 & N. YKS,
Crawhall & Ions Weardale
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Straka & others from Czechia
Endesfelder from Saxony
Ripke from Poland

Offline davecapps

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,946
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 May 22 21:23 BST (UK) »
this has nothing to do with your person, but it does prove that there is/was a name Barbarba



Offline Rosegold89

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 May 22 21:45 BST (UK) »
Ah thanks! Yeah I knew Muth was a German surname and Barbara does not seem to be uncommon there either. I just realised the picture doesn't show the whole certificate but the name directly underneath John Lewis is the one I was referring to. I thought it looked like it starts with 'La' and the surname looks different too?

Online Jo6100

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 May 22 22:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosegold
In the link given by Fiddlerslass the capital B looks like an L in Suetterlin script

Jo

Offline Rosegold89

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 May 22 22:58 BST (UK) »
Ah I see, thanks. Do you know if the earlier version of it that's mentioned is what could've been used? Because they married in 1853

Online fiddlerslass

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,215
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 22 May 22 05:13 BST (UK) »
I find there is not much variation between the two scripts when reading German records through the 1800's.
Here is an article on Kurrent

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent

Here is one of my Barbara's, to show the writing,  in a  death register 1830 from the German speaking part of North Czechia, then part of Austro- Hungarian empire. Look under Februar

http://vademecum.soalitomerice.cz/vademecum/permalink?xid=09ddd7cea03b9b8d:30bdd2c7:1201ea2ef5b:-77c5&scan=a939464924a2457a965be3058b7ee39f

Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR
 & N. YKS,
Crawhall & Ions Weardale
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Straka & others from Czechia
Endesfelder from Saxony
Ripke from Poland

Offline arthurk

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,376
    • View Profile
Re: Barbara Muth wedding certificate with name in another language
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 22 May 22 11:30 BST (UK) »
The certificate was issued by the GRO, and the fact that it incorporates a photocopy indicates that it's a direct copy of the return submitted at the end of the relevant quarter - note the wording "a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of the Register...."

So this isn't Barbara's own handwriting, but a reproduction of it by whoever completed the return - and it looks like a pretty good attempt at that script. Because of the repeated pattern of letters in her name, it's possible that the extra 'b' appeared at the time of copying (it's missing in the name box above), so you'd need to check the original register to see how she did actually sign.