Irish Prison Records 1797-1798

[haney]

HI I am trying to find any information on Prisoners who were in NEWGATE 1798 and previous I have these records from the SPP.  On Find My Past the records for Newgate are 1845-1861.

My research mainly involves the various places that prisoners were place on board the "Lively" tender/barque with Captain Christopher DOBSON as I am tracking the movements of my ancestor who was tried in Athy in 1797.  I am unable to find out as yet his prison place between Athy and Dublin??

 The Lively went from Dublin to Cork and the convicts were place on board the "Minerva". 

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-2286124355/view.

Kind regards and thanks Dianna

[seaweed]

According to Lloyds Register of shipping the vessel LIVELY, owned and captained by Dobson was classed as a Brig (Brigantine) home port, Shields. (South/North Shields) Up until 1841  Shields ships were registered in Newcastle.
It maybe worthwhile to contact Tyne and Wear Archives to see if they have anything on the1797/1798 Muster Roles (Early Logbooks) and/or movements of LIVELY during this period. Be aware there were over 20 ships with the name LIVELY. around in 1797/1798.

I don't know if you have reserched these records from London Metropolitan Archives. Re Calendars or lists of prisoners 1796-1797,
https://search.lma.gov.uk/SCRIPTS/MWIMAIN.DLL/182928473/2/3/80?RECORD&UNION=Y#coll3

regards
SW

[haney]

HI SW
   Thanks so much for this information.  So DOBSON actually owned the ship/brig.  That is very interesting and really could lead somewhere!  I will definitely contact Tyne and Wear Archives, who knows what they may have!  Fingers crossed.

I had NO idea that a ship's name could be given to so many different ones.  Always something to learn!  I will also try the link to London Metropolitan Archives.  I'm grateful for any snippet or clue.  Thanks so much.  Regards Dianna

[haney]

Hi again SW I see now why you have sent me the link to the London Archives. 

The Newgate prison I am speaking of is in Ireland NOT England.  Sorry should have been more specific there!  There was Dublin Castle, Kilmainham and Newgate (all in Dublin).

 I suspect my Michael was in one of these three places perhaps.

Unless he was on a Hulk.  Many thanks Dianna

[Maiden Stone]

My research mainly involves the various places that prisoners were place on board the "Lively" tender/barque with Captain Christopher DOBSON as I am tracking the movements of my ancestor who was tried in Athy in 1797.  I am unable to find out as yet his prison place between Athy and Dublin??

 The Lively went from Dublin to Cork and the convicts were place on board the "Minerva". 

My first guesses if he was held in County Kildare would be either Athy or Naas.
Athy gaol was in White's Castle 1730-1830s.
Confusingly the prison in Naas was known as White's Castle Gaol. It was in use from 1786. The site was later occupied by the Town Hall which has recently become a library and cultural centre. Historical information on Libraries section of County Kildare website https://www.kildare.ie

There were convict depots for prisoners awaiting transportation. Kilmainham was a convict depot. It was built to replace an older prison in 1796.

Information about Irish prisons and resources on Irish Genealogy Toolkit.
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/irish-genealogy-search.html
A-Z contents list: Courts; Crimes; Prison Records

"History Ireland"  journal has some articles about prisons e.g. "A scene of shameful disorder and dissipation" names several prisons
 https://www.historyireland.com/a-scene-of-shameful-disorder-and-dissipation/
Putting search term prison or gaol or convict or transportation may find more articles.

Have you looked for newspaper reports of the trial? They may mention where the convicted prisoners were taken.

[haney]

HI Maiden Stone
 Re articles I think I have covered that as best as I could from Aus.  I found as many as I could re the day Michael was tried at Athy and there seemed to one case that took precedence by the looks of it.

That was the trial of Simon FRAZER who murdered? another guy! I will have to find it now!  Could have been in The Saunders Newsletter and Dailey Advertiser?? August 1791

Specific to this time was the trial/report at least of FARRELL CUFFE who is reported in the paper Wednesday April 26 1797 (Saunders).  I have been following Farrell Cuffe as well! Friend to my Michael Byrne. 

The date gave me some hope that there may have been a "snippet" of information on Michael being arrested or held somewhere???  but the day of his trial all the papers were filled with the report of  SIMON FRASER and JOHN ROSS were on trial for the murder of a CHRISTOPHER DIXON.

Anyway I just keep picking away at it.  LOL Thanks Dianna

[Maiden Stone]

Hi again SW I see now why you have sent me the link to the London Archives. 


Unless he was on a Hulk.  Many thanks Dianna

National Archives in England contain various Irish records e.g. military.

Convict hulk "Essex" was moored at Kingstown, County Dublin from 1824. Another hulk "Surprise" was at Cobh, Cork. 

[haney]

Thanks unfortunately I would need Hulks in the late 1790's.  I will have to try and find any records of the dates that Athy had prisoners kept there.  I may have to search the newspapers again just to see where (if recorded) the prisoners were taken from after their respective trials in Athy.

 It would make sense that Michael was there after his trial.  Many thanks Dianna

[Maiden Stone]

Thanks unfortunately I would need Hulks in the late 1790's. 

As far as I know there were no dedicated convict hulks stationed off Ireland then. However an article about prison hulks on National Archives website mentions records for Ireland from 1790s onwards. 
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Another article about prison hulks on  "Shipwrecks of Cork Harbour" says that prisoners were held in city and county gaols in the early days of transportation to Australia until arrangements could be made to take them to ports such as Dublin and Cork to be shipped out to prison shops. It's a brief article giving an overview of the situation. www.corkshipwrecks.net

"Guide to penal transportation records: Ireland to Australia 1788-1868" is another informative article on Irish National Archives website. It says all transportation registers pre 1836 were destroyed in 1922.
https://www.nationalarchives.ie