Request for help locating parents of Harriet Maria Brammer born in Fenton

[serveta]

Can I say a big thank you to you all as it all makes sense some of which I had seen before but disregarded as unsure of a clear connection, in respect of Samuel Brammer named on marriage cert I almost discounted this but was reluctant due to no supporting evidence and watching the Greg Davies episode of WDYTYA when a supposed father named on marriage cert was proved to be a lie . So the consensus of opinion seems to be that Ralph and Charlotte are the parents of Charlotte Brammer who is the mother of Harriet Maria. The name of Ralph Cooper Brammer is also interesting as his middle name could be a clue to possible surname of a maternal grandparent

Very much appreciate all your time and efforts

Kind Regards
Ron

         

[serveta]

Follow up question regards marital status of Charlotte born abt 1805 and Charlotte born abt 1825

Charlotte born abt 1825 was living with parents Ralph & Charlotte Brammer in 1851

Marriage found for Charlotte Garner & Ralph Brammer 1810 ..  Charlotte's  parents ?  although date not matching declared marital age of Charlotte in 1851 (born 1805) given that D.O.B can be out by a possible 10 years I still need clarification this is correct although details almost makes sense

Charlotte was almost certainly unmarried when Harriet was born 

More food for thought re 1861 census for Spittals Workhouse Staffs

C Brammer - 37 - female - married   -  if this is Harriet's mother why state married name as Brammer when maiden name would have been Brammer  ?

Harriet Maria Brammer would have been living in Middlesbrough by 1871 as by 1872 she was married and first child William James Weepers was born 

So final question do we think D.O.B for Charlotte could be that far out or is the marriage details for 1810 for some other family 

Kind Regards
Ron   
   
 

[Ladyhawk]

1871

Charlotte Brammer 48 widow b Fenton
Ralph Brammer    15    Son b Fenton
John Atherton 49    Visitor b Cheshire
Piece 2869 Folio 65 Page 23

Ralph Cooper Brammer married in Leeds in 1877

Is this the 1877 marriage to Mary Ann Mallinson?

3 Nov 1877 Burmantofts, St Stephen, Yorkshire
Ralph Cooper Brammer age 22 labourer  Father Matthew Cooper Brammer, joiner
Spouse:    Mary Ann Mallinson
One witness Sarah Elizabeth Cooper Brammer

Ralph Brammer    35 Stoke Upon Trent, Staffordshire, street mason
Mary A Brammer 30   Wife
Lily Brammer 7   Daughter
Ralph Brammer 4 Son
Charlotte Tunstall   M 70 Mother Stoke On Trent
Roland Brammer 4 mths transcribed as Son-in-law but can’t make out original entry
Seth Stockdale 31Boarder
Harriet “ 4 Daughter
1891 Piece:   3693 Folio:   121

This appears to be Sarah Elizabeth Cooper Brammer with her mother

1881 Piece:   4519 Folio:   5 Page Number:   6
Charlotte Brammer   60 Widow Stoke On Trent
Sarah E. Brammer   23 dau Stoke On Trent
Arthur Brammer   2 son Leeds

Arthur Atkinson Brammer
Birth 24 Apr 1878
Baptism 19 Jun 1878 Leeds, St Mary, Yorkshire
Mother:   Sarah Elizabeth Cooper Brammer

Sarah banns 11/18/ 25 Aug 1889 Leeds, Emmanuel, Yorkshire
Spouse:   Thomas Makin
I can only see the banns online

Edit marriage entry 1893

Sarah Elizabeth C Brammer Registration Quarter:   Oct-Nov-Dec 1893 Leeds

[trish1120]

Firstly if you look at the 1851 Census Charlottes age is hard to read more like 60+
Certainly not 46.

Ralph Brands   64
Charlotte Brands   46***
Charlotte Brands   25  b Fenton
Harriette Maria Brands   2  b Fenton

The 1810 Marriage seems correct to me and Daug Charlotte bapt 1822 (see my earlier posts)

Trish

Re 1861 Census. It was not uinusual for unm women to state they were married.

[trish1120]

Appears to be Matthew in 1851 Census.

1851 Census
Church St
Burslem, Staffordshire
William Cooper   56 Head Mar Potter born Bridgford
Elizabeth Cooper 56 Wife Mar born Bridgford
Matthew Cooper   25 Son Unm Joiner born Stafford, Staffordshire****
Michael Ashmore 28 Lodger

I would not be totally certain that Matthew is the Father of all the children of Charlotte though.

1861 and 1871 Matthew is still unmarried.

[serveta]

Thanks again for your help but gonna rule out the Burslem, Staffordshire connection as this seems to relate to another Harriet Brammer born about the same time however, the 1851 Census is worth another look

Kind Regards
Ron