Freedom registers for 1700s

[wurding]

Is this 1750 record of any interest? It mentions Merton, so there's a possible Wimbledon connection.

Reference:   QS2/6/1750/Xms/54
Title: Report of Thomas Rowsell, inspector of cattle, notifying outbreaks of distemper in Merton and Battersea, and reporting on his activities in general
Date:   1750
Held by:   Surrey History Centre, not available at The National Archives [TNA]

Link: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/8bb1fd0c-fdf3-4854-91f7-c3b278f1cb90

Below is the Surrey History Centre's link for the above, plus a related 1748 record:

https://www.surreyarchives.org.uk/collections/getrecord/SHCOL_QS_16_145_48

https://www.surreyarchives.org.uk/collections/getrecord/SHCOL_QS_16_140_15

Yes, thank you this looks promising. I will try and get copies of these documents so I can investigate further since I cannot see their contents from the links you kindly provided

[wurding]

Find My Past have this 1754 transcript record (no image) in case it's of any interest:

Surrey Feet Of Fines 1558-1760
Name: Benjamin Rosewell
Location: Wimbledon, Surrey
Year: 1754

Feet of Fines were documents of a fictitious suit of law created to obtain a secure transfer of land.

ADDED:

Surrey Feet Of Fines 1558-1760
Name: Benjamin Rosewell
Location: Croydon
Year: 1753

I think it highly likely this Benjamin is related to Thomas due to their proximity. Also Thomas had a great grandson named Benjamin born in 1820. Not certain of a connection but it is probably worth my following up and researching more. Thank you.

[Bookbox]

Members of the livery cos are not necessarily employed in that profession primarily so his being a farmer does not preclude his membership of the company of Butchers. His son Thomas was apprenticed into the Butchers co 7 May 1748 and his father Thomas is listed so I think it may be by right of patrimony he was admitted for the apprenticeship.

Some confusion here, I think?

There is no ‘admission by patrimony’ in relation to apprenticeship into a City livery company. If the apprentice’s master belonged to a Company, the binding would be recorded in the Company’s books, indentures signed, premium and tax paid, etc. The apprentice’s father need not have been a member of the same or of any other livery company. Hundreds of London apprentices came from families within and outside the metropolitan area who were not connected to a City livery company in any way. Naming the father in a binding record is standard practice, regardless of his status.

Admission to Freedom of the City of London is a different matter. I think this may be what you have in mind when you reference ‘patrimony’? Admission to Freedom of the City was gained in one of three ways -- by servitude (completing an apprenticeship within a City livery company), patrimony (father being made free of a City livery company before the son’s birth) or redemption (buying your way in).

I hope this clarifies things for you.

[wurding]

Members of the livery cos are not necessarily employed in that profession primarily so his being a farmer does not preclude his membership of the company of Butchers. His son Thomas was apprenticed into the Butchers co 7 May 1748 and his father Thomas is listed so I think it may be by right of patrimony he was admitted for the apprenticeship.

Some confusion here, I think?

There is no ‘admission by patrimony’ in relation to apprenticeship into a City livery company. If the apprentice’s master belonged to a Company, the binding would be recorded in the Company’s books, indentures signed, premium and tax paid, etc. The apprentice’s father need not have been a member of the same or of any other livery company. Hundreds of London apprentices came from families within and outside the metropolitan area who were not connected to a City livery company in any way. Naming the father in a binding record is standard practice, regardless of his status.

Admission to Freedom of the City of London is a different matter. I think this may be what you have in mind when you reference ‘patrimony’? Admission to Freedom of the City was gained in one of three ways -- by servitude (completing an apprenticeship within a City livery company), patrimony (father being made free of a City livery company before the son’s birth) or redemption (buying your way in).

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Yes it does, thank you. I had understood that many men from this family obtained Freedom of the City and some of them completed apprenticeships in livery companies while others obtained it through patrimony.

The document for John Rowsell makes it clear he was apprentice to his uncle Evan Pugh and not to his father Thomas Rowsell, yet John's brother Thomas' apprenticeship (The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Collection: Board of Stamps: Apprenticeship Books: Series IR 1; Class: IR 1; Piece: 18) only lists his father as far as I can remember (i can no longer access the document on Ancestry even though I paid for access to the record, but they have recently changed things so you lose access to your documents while you are not a paying subscriber!) - this led me to think that his father Thomas senior was his master for the apprenticeship.

[Bookbox]

John's brother Thomas' apprenticeship (The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Collection: Board of Stamps: Apprenticeship Books: Series IR 1; Class: IR 1; Piece: 18) only lists his father as far as I can remember ... this led me to think that his father Thomas senior was his master for the apprenticeship.

The reference for Thomas in IR 1 reads:

1748
Saturday May y^e 7^th
No. - 3   
Masters’ Names, Place of Abode & Trade - Will. Webb of Wandsworth in Surry Butcher
App(rentice)s’ Names & Fathers &c - Tho^s son of Tho^s Rowsell

So Thomas Rowsell junior was apprenticed to William Webb. There is nothing here to suggest that Webb was a member of the Butchers’ Company of London, nor that Rowsell senior was a butcher. These are essentially tax records, and that sort of information would not be relevant here.

Note that the date given is when the master paid the tax, not when the apprentice was bound.

[wurding]

John's brother Thomas' apprenticeship (The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Collection: Board of Stamps: Apprenticeship Books: Series IR 1; Class: IR 1; Piece: 18) only lists his father as far as I can remember ... this led me to think that his father Thomas senior was his master for the apprenticeship.

The reference for Thomas in IR 1 reads:

1748
Saturday May y^e 7^th
No. - 3   
Masters’ Names, Place of Abode & Trade - Will. Webb of Wandsworth in Surry Butcher
App(rentice)s’ Names & Fathers &c - Tho^s son of Tho^s Rowsell

So Thomas Rowsell junior was apprenticed to William Webb. There is nothing here to suggest that Webb was a member of the Butchers’ Company of London, nor that Rowsell senior was a butcher. These are essentially tax records, and that sort of information would not be relevant here.

Note that the date given is when the master paid the tax, not when the apprentice was bound.

Thank you for looking that up. Thomas Jnr was 14 on that date and this is the age of apprentices as far as I understand so it must be close to the date the apprenticeship began.

Based on what you have told me, I am unlikely to find anything about Thomas Rowsell snr at the Guildhall library records of the Butcher's company, correct?

[Bookbox]

Based on what you have told me, I am unlikely to find anything about Thomas Rowsell snr at the Guildhall library records of the Butcher's company, correct?

I can't see anything in this thread to support the notion that Thomas Rowsell senior was a member of the Butchers' Company. But I haven't had time to read your other threads on the family.

[goldie61]

You would have to search for where the records of the Duchess of Marlborough's estate are.
Try searching on TNA, or even a Google search.
(If you put "Duchess of Marlborough" estate archives into Google you will get some information. You need the inverted commas around "Duchess of Marlborough".)

Thanks for this advice. I presume the land TR farmed was that of Wimbledon Manor House completed by Duchess of Marlborough. Should I include that in my search terms?

No, I wouldn't make it too specific. Sometimes less is better on search engines.
Perhaps do a separate search for "Wimbledon Manor House".
Scrub that - I just tried it, and you don't get any hits on TNA Discovery page.

Just to say about apprentices and the guilds.
Apprenticeships were not always in the company of the occupation they followed.
I spent years looking for an ancestor who was a dyer, in  the Dyers' Company records, only to find him later, when many more records came on-line, in the Drapers' company.
I also have London lightermen and watermen who worked on the river, not in the Lightermen and Watermen company, but again in the Drapers' Company.
This is because the masters they took their apprenticeships with were members of the Drapers' Company.
Just something to be aware of if you're looking for apprenticeship records.

[Bookbox]

I presume the land TR farmed was that of Wimbledon Manor House completed by Duchess of Marlborough. Should I include that in my search terms?

Two suggestions:

(1) Use TNA Discovery Advanced Search

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
Select the tab Search for Record Creators
Enter Marlborough Wimbledon
Click Spencer Family
Use Ctrl+F to find references to Wimbledon

OR

(2) Search the Manorial Documents Register

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/manor-search
In Search by Manor, enter Wimbledon

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F237680
Scroll down to find the relevant dates

None of these records is likely to be online – you will need to contact the various record offices to ask if there is any indexing, and whether copies of records can be supplied.