Gypsies/ Travellers in houses

[MeirSoul]

I have found what appears to be Gypsy or Traveller ancestors in the 1800s but they seemed to of lived in houses. Their occupations and surnames and way of life point to traveller origins and they seemed to of all lived together in the same street . My question is was it common for gypsies to have settled by the 1800s and apart from the obvious (being born in Ireland) is there a way to distinguish Irish Travellers from Romany Gypsies.

Thanks

[Darnity]

When in the 1800s - is this Census entries? The Census was usually taken early in the year, before the travelling season started, so some Travellers may have been in houses at that time but then set off on their annual circuit shortly afterwards.

Might be useful to give us an example so we could have a look and see what we think.

[MeirSoul]

When in the 1800s - is this Census entries? The Census was usually taken early in the year, before the travelling season started, so some Travellers may have been in houses at that time but then set off on their annual circuit shortly afterwards.

Might be useful to give us an example so we could have a look and see what we think.

Throughout the 1800s.

For example . William Hodgkinson.  Born 1781 in Dudley . Married Elizabeth Mear in Lichfield and is showing in the 1851 census as living in a house on Smithy Lane in Uttoxeter.  Occupation, Besom maker

[Ruskie]

As you know, the census is only a snapshot of one night in ten years. There could be any number of reasons they were living in a house.

It might help if you follow each family through each census and consider things such as:
Are they always living in a house?
Is it the same (or a nearby) address every census?
Are they living as a family or boarding with/visiting someone else? If they are staying with someone who is not family, have you followed them to see where that leads?
Have you traced the children in case their addresses or occupations give you any clues?

There are probably other pointers you can look for.

Added: I found William in the 1851 census. He looks quite settled there in Smithy Lane. I wasn’t sure which was your William in the 1841.

If they were settled in one area perhaps they weren’t travellers/gipsys at all?
 

[tonepad]

The author of the website listed below has researched Hodgkinson Gypsy families in Uttoxeter who were besom makers:

https://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/hodgkins.html


Tony

[MeirSoul]

As you know, the census is only a snapshot of one night in ten years. There could be any number of reasons they were living in a house.

It might help if you follow each family through each census and consider things such as:
Are they always living in a house?
Is it the same (or a nearby) address every census?
Are they living as a family or boarding with/visiting someone else? If they are staying with someone who is not family, have you followed them to see where that leads?
Have you traced the children in case their addresses or occupations give you any clues?

There are probably other pointers you can look for.

Added: I found William in the 1851 census. He looks quite settled there in Smithy Lane. I wasn’t sure which was your William in the 1841.

If they were settled in one area perhaps they weren’t travellers/gipsys at all?

Yea same goes for the Neild line which also seems to be quite settled , again in Smithy lane .

[MeirSoul]

The author of the website listed below has researched Hodgkinson Gypsy families in Uttoxeter who were besom makers:

https://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/hodgkins.html


Tony

I've seen this before . I'm almost certain they were gypsies/travellers due to the other research that I have done and Smithy lane appears to be some sort of gypsy community.  I'm just curious as to why they'd be so "settled" in the same street . Unless as the poster above suggested they weren't gyspy/travellers at all 

[Talacharn]

My understanding of travellers and the census, is that until 1871, travellers tended not to be included, as the census focused on those living in houses. In 1841 the census was taken on 6 June, in 1851 it was 30 March, and in 1861 it was 7th April. Being early in the year, it could be before they started travelling, having spent winter in a house. Another issue could be illness, especially a child, where some remained in a house while the rest travelled. Finally, they tended to have large families and then not all travelled. Within your grouping, some could be land-based, but they would be welcoming to their traveller relatives. Finding earlier travellers can be very difficult.

[Ruskie]

I haven’t made any observations regarding information on specific censuses (pre or post 1871), but I have heard of travellers/gypsies on censuses recorded as living in caravans or in fields.

Similarly, people living in barns and barges and other non permanent accomodation are also on various censuses.

It would be interesting to know what others have found regarding travellers not living in houses being recorded on censuses or not.