Author Topic: Grandparents married in Hull  (Read 92819 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 23 March 22 14:53 GMT (UK) »
Been following with interest

Frederick Warren BATCHELDOR was a handsome man

It's easy to see how someone could have obtained wrong birth certificate.

I'm just wondering now that the two families have been unravelled .is the cousin who sent you a picture of the grandmother  the wrong cousin and the wrong grandma
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline uksouthafrica

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 23 March 22 15:07 GMT (UK) »
Yes, thank you. He was. I was 3 weeks old when he had a severe stroke and never spoke again until he died when I was 12. We all went to Robben Island in 1955 so Mom could work as a Nursing Sister and support all of us.

No, it was the correct cousin and my next step is to reconnect with her (J) and her brother. I wanted more info before I met up with them again. Their older brother who had their father's name had died a few years ago.
Kind regards

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 23 March 22 20:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello again uksouthafrica. Thanks for providing the new scans of the birth records which are nice and clear. While there is some time needed to consider these records, it might be helpful if you could provide information about the cousin you mention in your last post.
Who was the older brother (now deceased) who had their father’s name?
Which member of the Batchelder family does this cousin descend from?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 24 March 22 00:21 GMT (UK) »


I am not sure why father Frederick Warren and his brother Edward (Ted) used Batchelder - perhaps the war got in the way.
 

Because that was their name.
It was their father's surname.
Arthur BATCHELDER whose mother was nee WARREN

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Neale1961

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 24 March 22 01:04 GMT (UK) »
As far as I can ascertain from the information supplied, in August 1997, Ms U. Batchelder-K applied for her father’s birth certificate and received certificate No. 201077.

Due to a spelling error in the surname, a corrected copy was requested, and in September 1997 corrected certificate No.496408 was issued.

This certificate is Entry No. 259/1906. It is for a male child; surname BATCHELOR; NO CHRISTIAN NAME; born 21 Jan 1906, Woodstock.

Now looking at the older birth certificate No.66774, issued in December 1942, we see that it is the exact same Entry No. 259/06. It should therefore contain the exact same information, BUT it does NOT - half of the information is different.
We now have the different surname BATCHELDER, and we have the added Christian names FREDERICK WARREN.
The date of birth, and the place of birth remain the same however.
This certificate does not give the names of parents. If it had done so, Frederick (alive in 1942, and before ill-health) would have immediately picked up the error. As it was, he probably didn’t care too much that the printed date of birth was just 10 days out.

I suspect that there was sloppy work (a clerical error) made, either right back in 1906 upon registration, or by the registrar in 1942 when issuing the certificate. It has also been suggested to me that there may have been an attempted cover-up for this sloppiness on the part of registry clerical staff who possibly did not care to be contradicted.

Since the birth dates for “Nameless BATCHELOR” and “Frederick Warren BATCHELDER” only differ by 1 digit (21-01-1906 AND 31-01-1906), they possibly followed each other in the entry book. A cleric seeing the two entries believed they were for the same person because both the surname and birth date were almost identical, and the careless cleric has combined information from 2 different entries, into 1 birth certificate.

I believe information on certificate No.496408, issued in Sept 1997 is correct, however this is for the un-named child of the BATCHELOR family from Hull, England. This is the wrong family (as demonstrated previously). It is NOT the certificate for your father, Frederick Warren BATCHELDER, son of Arthur Asher BATCHELDER and Sophie Margaret.

In 1997, Ms U. Batchelder-K may have assumed the birth date from the old 1942 certificate was correct, and quoted that date when applying for her father’s birth certificate. Thus she has ended up with the birth certificate for the wrong person.
Had she applied for the birth certificate of Frederick Warren BATCHELDER born 31-01-1906, she may have received a different certificate.

I hypothesise that there is the correct birth record still out there to find, and consultation by phone with the SA registry office might be necessary. Note the spelling of the surname, and the date of birth on Frederick Warren BATCHELDER’s death certificate – which (at a later date and in a different hand) has been annotated as “correct” – almost as if it has been checked against other documentation. Death cert snip posted below.

For additional verification, it might be prudent to obtain the birth certificate for Frederick’s sister who died in 1922 -- Elizabeth Naomi BATCHELDER born 17 May 1903. We know from the baptism register that she had the same father (Arthur) and mother (Sophia) as Frederick Warren.
The birth certificate for brother Edward James BATCHELDER would also be of interest to you. As we don’t have a baptism record for him, we cannot be so certain that his mother was also Sophia. You may well find he was the child from another partner.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #50 on: Thursday 24 March 22 01:27 GMT (UK) »
I would support Neale's theory above. 1942 war time may have meant staff shortages and have had other negative impacts on the department of civil registration's functioning .

uksouthafrica,
Would you like to post the photo of your grandmother as given to you by your cousin?
It may be of interest to all.

No pressure, just up to you. :D

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline uksouthafrica

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #51 on: Thursday 24 March 22 10:05 GMT (UK) »
Reply to Neale #47
Thank you.

My deceased first cousin was Edward Batchelder, son of my father's brother, Edward (Ted) Batchelder.

Neither of my deceased Uncle Ted's living children (my first cousins) J (daughter) and P (son) wish to pursue their family history. I respect that so I will only follow up on my father (Frederick Warren Batchelder). Or if I come across anything to do with Uncle Ted I will not notify them. Is that acceptable?

Offline uksouthafrica

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #52 on: Thursday 24 March 22 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Hello Sue (Sparrett)
I will attach a photograph of my paternal Grandmother. I don't know her first name.

Offline uksouthafrica

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Re: Grandparents married in Hull
« Reply #53 on: Thursday 24 March 22 10:09 GMT (UK) »
Black and white photograph of my paternal Grandmother (mother of Edward, oldest son & my father Frederick Warren).

I also found my father's 1956 ID (he would have been 50)