John Whitaker and Mary Ashworth -Newchurch, Rossendale. Help please.

[tillyann]

Hi RyanUK,
You are right about how difficult it can be to research given the amount of people with the same names.
I can't conclusively say that anyone other than the children and grandchildren of James and Ann Whitaker are correct. I am definite about those.
James Whitaker and Ann Lord which ones are my line -no idea really could be any.
His dad John Whitaker I think marries Mary Ashworth but again there are too many possibilities.
I still think the only reliable connection to all these people has been St Nicholas Church, Newchurch and a relatively brief stint attending Holy Trinity in Tunstead in the 1840s.

[RyanUK]

Hi tilly.
I think the clues will be there we just have to be patient i suppose with what we learn
I have had the same experience as you with the same places and names.
I build a lot of trees but I don't keep ones other than my own generally,
I like to spend sometime with the dna results and look forward to finding clues that way.
Have you taken your Ancestry dna test?
if so do you filter your results to show for Whittaker surnames in dna results and then just look at the persons that have the least surnames you relate to that must include at least Whittaker.

[Footo]

 When our  Edmund marries he calls his children James, Margaret Ann, Edmund (again my line), John, Elizabeth, John Munn and James.
The eldest James dies and is buried at St Nicholas, John Munn (1844) and James (1848) are baptised at Holy Trinity in Tunstead. Other than those Baptisms everything happens at St Nicholas through the generations. The  mother of these children Margaret is an Irish Catholic.

When and where did Edmund Whitaker marry?

I’m thinking Ireland Maiden Stone…

On1841 census - Newchurch
Edmund Whitaker (1798)   Tailor ——born in county
Margaret (1803) —— born Ireland
James (1825)  —— born Ireland
Margaret Ann (1832) —— born Scotland
Edmund (1835) —— born Ireland
Elizabeth (1839) —— born Ireland

On 1851 Census - Stacksteads (Newchurch)

Edmund Whitaker (1798)   Corporal Chelsea. Tailor —— born Newchurch, Lancs
Margaret (1802) —— born Ireland
Margaret Ann (1832) —— born Scotland
Edmund (1835)  Tailor’s Apprentice —— born Ireland
Elizabeth (1839)  Scholar —— born Ireland
John M(unn) (1845) Scholar - born Newchurch, Lancs
James (1849) —— born Newchurch, Lancs


 There is a regimental record for an Edmund Whitaker born Rossendale (Rossendale being mistranscribed) 25th Ft - trade or occupation Tailor  aged 16 in 1813 think his attestation says Salford Nov 1813 on the following page.

There’s a catholic baptism record for an Elizabeth Whitaker that comes up with the hints as being baptised in Cork in 1839 to an Edmund Whitaker and Margaret O’Donoghue.

There is also a possible catholic baptism on Scotlands People for the daughter Margaret Whit(t)aker in 1831 - father Edmund Whit(t)aker mother Margaret Donocher Paisley St. Mirins (St. Mirren).

[Maiden Stone]

Footo reply #29. There's a concurrent topic about Edmund Whitaker's military career and his family in Ireland and one about them in Scotland.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859831.0

[tillyann]

Thank you Footo (Barbara). I am very appreciative of your knowledge of the area which helps immensely and for your interest.
Edmund and Margaret are discussed as Maidenstone says via the link provided.
I'm not great at linking things, quoting etc but lm learning as l go.
I am still most stuck on James Whitaker and lm going back to the 1774 baptism for him as Ann was 1773. Going off names Edmund and Prudence Lord were Ann's parents. Both those names are represented as James and Ann call their children Edmund and Prudence. James father is called John and wife Mary if the 1774 James is correct. Mary is not a recurring family name though. Elizabeth and Margaret are. lf l can crack James parentage that it will take my research back to around 300 years and l'll be very happy with that.
I'll have another look at everything discussed here and in the other thread later today.

[Footo]

Footo reply #29. There's a concurrent topic about Edmund Whitaker's military career and his family in Ireland and one about them in Scotland.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859831.0

Many thanks - I’ll have a read later on tonight.

Thank you Footo (Barbara). I am very appreciative of your knowledge of the area which helps immensely and for your interest.
Edmund and Margaret are discussed as Maidenstone says via the link provided.
I'm not great at linking things, quoting etc but lm learning as l go.
I am still most stuck on James Whitaker and lm going back to the 1774 baptism for him as Ann was 1773. Going off names Edmund and Prudence Lord were Ann's parents. Both those names are represented as James and Ann call their children Edmund and Prudence. James father is called John and wife Mary if the 1774 James is correct. Mary is not a recurring family name though. Elizabeth and Margaret are. lf l can crack James parentage that it will take my research back to around 300 years and l'll be very happy with that.
I'll have another look at everything discussed here and in the other thread later today.

did you see the burial for a James Whitaker? (possibly the same family)

Baptism: 23 Oct 1774 St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, England
James Whitaker - [Child] of John Whitaker & Mary
    Abode: Edgside
    Register: Baptisms 1762 - 1775 from the Bishop's Transcripts
    Source: LDS Film 1040340

Burial: 18 Apr 1776 St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, England
James Whitaker - [Child] of John Whitaker & Mary
    Abode: Edgeside
    Buried by: J Shorrock
    Register: Burials 1775 - 1781
    Source: LDS Film 950393

Taken from LOPC

[Footo]

Personally I wouldn’t rule John and Mary out as the parents of your James. They may have had another son from 1776 onwards and named them James - as people have pointed out the registers are pretty shoddy. Perhaps they baptised him elsewhere or a record is not available as yet.

I would look through the registers myself to see if there is such an occurrence you may see something that a transcriber hasn’t quite made out and also look for other children born to the same parents and see if I could follow them to a possible marriage with a James as maybe a witness to it - it’s a long shot…

I had something similar with a relative also called James I’d found a baptism to the correct parents at Manchester Cathedral but the date of his baptism for age didn’t fit with any census records. Then years later some non- conformist records were put online for New Jerusalem Temple Salford I came across a burial that fitted with the age of the 1819 James and a baptism for the James I was looking for.

Barbara

(Edited to alter date)

[tillyann]

Thanks Footo (Barbara)
I appreciate your thoughts. I will continue to look and as you say the record may not have even been transcribe yet for all we know.
If l do find a record that l can verify in some way I'll let you know.

[Maiden Stone]

Personally I wouldn’t rule John and Mary out as the parents of your James.
 Perhaps they baptised him elsewhere or a record is not available as yet.

... also look for other children born to the same parents and see if I could follow them to a possible marriage with a James as maybe a witness to it - it’s a long shot…

 Then years later some non- conformist records were put online for New Jerusalem Temple Salford I came across a burial that fitted with the age of the 1819 James and a baptism for the James I was looking for.

All good advice.
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website began with C. of E. registers. Transcriptions of Catholic and Non-Conformist registers have been gradually added in recent years. I look at "What's new" on LAN-OPC regularly to see which registers have been added.
 R.C. and N.C. registers weren't public records like C. of E. They were the property of the church/chapel or mission or diocese or circuit or however that particular denomination organised itself in an area. Some clergymen who travelled around to minister to scattered flocks kept 1 register for all of them.
Non-conformism was prominent in Rossendale. There were chapels in Bacup before there was a Church of England there.
From other FH research in Bacup I learned that some NC children were baptised some distance from where they were born. 
There were unofficial NC burial grounds.