Is Daniel WILIAMS related to Elizabeth NORTHEY and Gwenllian née WILLIAMS JONES?

[Carmel000]

I’m trying to work out if the Daniel Williams who married Elizabeth Northey in NSW in 1869, is the same Daniel Williams who is the nephew of Gwenllian/Winifred (nee Williams) Jones. Gwenllian died at Cadia, NSW in 1868. I know both families worked in the mines during these years in this region of NSW. The parents of Daniel Williams, who married Elizabeth Northey, are William Williams and Elizabeth (nee Jones) Williams.

The link between Daniel and Gwenllian/Winifred is that the Informant on Gwenllian’s Death Transcript is “Daniel Williams, Nephew, Cadia”. So if they are related, Daniel would be the son of Gwenllian’s brother or sister, or else the son of Gwenllian’s husband’s sister. Gwenllian’s husband is William Jones.

There is an 1883 death record on NSW BDM for Daniel Williams which could be our Daniel Williams. The Death Transcript says he died at the “Hospital for Insane, Parramatta, NSW”. It doesn't name his parents or wife, it only says he was married. His age is about right. It says he was born in South Wales, which would also be correct.

I guess my next step is to check out the hospital records. Does anyone know about tracking down Daniel’s patient records at this hospital and whether it’s likely to supply any useful information?

Any help I can get would be much appreciated.

Carmel

[majm]

Hi there,

Do you have sample of Daniel Williams' signature in 1868 and in 1869?    I am not advocating you purchase either document,  but if you can access the church register for the 1869 marriage, you should be able to view his signature on that document.  The NSW BDM marriage record will likely have scant info and could well be all in the handwriting of the clergy or the clergy's clerk, but the actual church register should be extant, and if so, should have the actual signatures for the bride and the groom ....     If so, then it may be sensible to consider buying the 1868 d.c. where the informant's signature ought to be recorded and then compare.    WILLIAMS was and still is one of the more popular surnames in regional NSW.  TEN males aged at least 21 years are listed by that surname in the Orange Electorate in 1870, and that's back when it was not compulsory to enrol to vote.  Only SEVEN listed under JONES in that same roll.     None for a Daniel Williams in 1870 Orange Roll.

BUT

1878 NSW ER ORANGE
Daniel WILLIAMS,  residence, Orange 

Grevilles PO Directory 1875 Cadia
Daniel WILLIAMS, miner, Burntyards. 
(the locality is Burnt Yardshttp://wikiedit.org/Australia/burnt-yards/7004298 )

GREVILLE P.O. Directory 1875 CARCOAR
all with surname WILLIAMS
Dionysius, labourer
Henry, miner, Burntyards
William, miner, Burntyards
Daniel, miner, Burntyards


I do NOT believe there were two by given name of Daniel.  I suspect it is a duplication in the 1875 directory, Burnt Yards is still in the same location as it was back in the 1870s. 

JM

[majm]

1870 NSW ER CARCOAR
Daniel WILLIAMS, Burntyards    (12 men with that surname enrolled for Carcoar, and ONLY 11 as Jones !  Williams definitely very very popular surname)

    

JM

[Carmel000]

Hi

Thank you for your reply. That’s a very clever suggestion.

I have Daniel and Elizabeth’s 1869 Marriage Transcript and you are right - there is very little information on it. No parents’ names, no ages, no places of birth were recorded. It does have Daniel residing at Burnt Yards, with Blacksmith as his occupation, and Elizabeth residing at Cadia. Also, luckily, because Elizabeth was under age, it recorded her mother’s very unusual name so I'm sure this is the correct marriage record. The place of marriage was Orange, the religion was Wesleyan Methodist and the minister was Jabez B. Waterhouse. It looks like the present day church would be the Orange Uniting Church so I’ll contact them.

Also, I already have the handwritten NSW BDM Death Certificate for Gwenllian/Winifred. The Informant’s name looks like it is signed by Daniel himself.

Thanks for the Greville and Electoral Roll information. As far as I know some of Daniel’s children were born in Burnt Yards around this time so it could be him. Yes, it  makes it all the more difficult when the families have such common names and even worse when, in my case, the Jones and Williams families keep marrying each other.

If anyone has information about the Parramatta Asylum records I’d still be interested in trying to find out more about Daniel’s time there.

Carmel