Patrick Joseph Hayes b 1921

[Eames]

Hello all,

 I hope you lot can help me - I'm back on the trail for my grandfather.

His name was Patrick Joseph HAYES born 22 June 1921, also known as Paddy

He passed away in 1985 and the informant which I assume be my grandmother who put his DoB as 22nd  June 1923. On his marriage cert to my grandmother, Teresa Mary or Mary Teresa McNulty (she keeps swapping those name around!) in December 1950, Ealing, Middlesex - he stated to be aged 29 so there for born 1921, not 1923. Father was Joseph HAYES an Army Pensioner.

I've been trying for years to find his parents as I'm not sure if these are correct - this what what I had found and did so far - remember its just not set in concrete..

I had found Joseph HAYES marrying Catherine CARROLL in 1918. Catherine died sometime before 1922 (I cannot find her death so far)
He then married Mary Ann CARROLL (Catherine's sister) no date of marriage found, they had 4 children all died before age of 2. 1st born in 1922. Mary died in 1931 - now you can see the problem? I've no idea if Patrick belongs to Catherine or Mary. The reason I had found him marry the CARROLLs is that on his 3rd and final wife (1940), which is known and his father was the same as previous marriages on assumption though.

I have contacted Ireland GRO and some parishes - they had no trace on his birth or baptisms, seem he doesnt exist! So today I heard that irishgenealogy.ie updated birth record to 1921 .. Found a John Hayes born 22 June 1921 with parents John (ex soldier) and Mary. Then found a Patrick Joseph Hayes born 22 March 1921 with parents Michael (labourer) and Mary Bridget (Ring). What to do next?!
Must point out that my dad's middle name was Michael.. Perfect !

Sorry it's long, but any advice or suggestion would be so appreciated!

Thanks,

Eames

[ColC]

I have contacted Ireland GRO and some parishes -  Then found a Patrick Joseph Hayes born 22 March 1921 with parents Michael (labourer) and Mary Bridget (Ring). What to do next?!
Must point out that my dad's middle name was Michael.. Perfect !

Thanks,

Eames
[/quote

Michael & Mary Ring marriage is on the same site. Same details and more 24 April 1920.

Colin

[Eames]

Hi,

 Yes I;d found that marriage after spotting his birth - just dont know for sure if that's my grandfather's parents though.

[CBGenealogy]

Have you contacted the church where he married in 1950? They would hopefully have a separate register of marriages which might have both parents' name.

[aghadowey]

Something here not correct-

I had found Joseph HAYES marrying Catherine CARROLL in 1918. Catherine died sometime before 1922 (I cannot find her death so far)
He then married Mary Ann CARROLL (Catherine's sister) no date of marriage found, they had 4 children all died before age of 2. 1st born in 1922. Mary died in 1931 - now you can see the problem? I've no idea if Patrick belongs to Catherine or Mary. The reason I had found him marry the CARROLLs is that on his 3rd and final wife (1940), which is known and his father was the same as previous marriages on assumption though.

John son of Joseph Hayes & Mary Carroll born 1921-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01172/1488599.pdf
For reference here's the 1918 marriage of Joseph Hayes & Catherine Carroll-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09714/5524689.pdf
Are you sure that Joseph Hayes married sisters Catherine & Mary Carroll or could his wife have been Mary Catherine or Catherine Mary?

[Eames]

Have you contacted the church where he married in 1950? They would hopefully have a separate register of marriages which might have both parents' name.

I didnt think they'd do separate register in England? (Mind I never married, so no idea on that). If it is the case, I'll try that avenue. Thanks

[Eames]

Something here not correct-

I had found Joseph HAYES marrying Catherine CARROLL in 1918. Catherine died sometime before 1922 (I cannot find her death so far)
He then married Mary Ann CARROLL (Catherine's sister) no date of marriage found, they had 4 children all died before age of 2. 1st born in 1922. Mary died in 1931 - now you can see the problem? I've no idea if Patrick belongs to Catherine or Mary. The reason I had found him marry the CARROLLs is that on his 3rd and final wife (1940), which is known and his father was the same as previous marriages on assumption though.

John son of Joseph Hayes & Mary Carroll born 1921-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1921/01172/1488599.pdf
For reference here's the 1918 marriage of Joseph Hayes & Catherine Carroll-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09714/5524689.pdf
Are you sure that Joseph Hayes married sisters Catherine & Mary Carroll or could his wife have been Mary Catherine or Catherine Mary?

I think I had found Mary and Catherine's birth - both have same set of parents. Again, if I could find the marriage of Joseph with Mary CARROLL to prove this.
Many thanks for John's info, dont know how I missed that. Now that tells me that Joseph wasnt born in 1921 then (that is if I got the right parents).

[aghadowey]

Was Patrick's wife older than him? if so, perhaps that's why he claimed to be 29 when he got married.

Can you see a slot for Patrick's birth now with the approx. birthdates of the children who died young and the birth for John in 1921?

The 1921 birth narrows down the date of Catherine (Carroll) Hayes death even further.

[aghadowey]

Have an idea... do you have birthdate/age for Catherine Hayes?