Brick Wall. Henry and Thomas Mantell, possibly Shropshire and Birmingham.

[softly softly]

It would appear that James and Sarah had another son. So far we have

James c1810 - 1880
Elizabeth c1812-1869
Henry c1813--possibly 1861 aged 49 = c1812
Humphrey c1816-??
Charles c1820-1891

This Henry appears I believe on 1841 census ref 1142 13 19 occupation journeyman millwright and 1851 census ref 2023 334 22, occupation Millwright. By 1861 census 2016 53 7 Elizabeth is a widow.

Believe this is Henry's death

MANTLE, HENRY       age 49 
GRO Reference: 1861  J Quarter in STAFFORD  Volume 06B  Page 1

John

[softly softly]

Very interesting 1851 census.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGKK-69T

John

added

possible baptism

First name(s) Thomas
Country England
Last name Mantle
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Gender Male
Father's last name Mantle
Birth year -
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Birth place -
Mother's last name -
Baptism year 1817
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Baptism date 16 Nov 1817
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place Hopton Wafers
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
County Shropshire

[yecartmannew]

Thanks Guys, you are all awesome.

I will take a good look at all this info as soon as I get chance, and hopefully can finally nail down the connection missing link.

My Mum is terminally ill and i would like to be able to tell her the exact relationship between Creighton and her mother Joan, the exact nature of which has always escaped us. I feel like we could be close now.

I'm really grateful for all the info you have found.

Regards

Tracey

[JenB]

the exact relationship between Creighton and her mother Joan, the exact nature of which has always escaped us. I feel like we could be close now.

I'm obviously missing something here - who are Creighton and Joan, please?

[yecartmannew]

the exact relationship between Creighton and her mother Joan, the exact nature of which has always escaped us. I feel like we could be close now.

I'm obviously missing something here - who are Creighton and Joan, please?

Sorry, that was rude of me. I have added the link to my ancestry  tree and then blithely carried on muttering as if everybody had seen it.

Joan Mantell was my grandmother,  herself the granddaughter of our Henry b.1845.

Charles Creighton Mantell was a relation, but currently on the floating tree as we cannot confirm the exact relationship.

Best guess from the family is that Creighton and Henry Jnr b.1872 and son of Our Henry were cousins.

Creighton died intestate and there was a request for family members to come forward. Joan tried but was apparently  "1 relationship too far removed" and unable to claim, so the assets went to the Crown.

My Mum remembers being taken to visit Mad Uncle (honorary title) Creighton in the psychiatric hospital when she was a child and remembers him fondly as being a bit strange but kindly.

[softly softly]

Deleted

[Gibel]

There’s this one

Charles Creighton Mantell
March Q 1890
Birmingham
Vol 6D page 57
Mother’s maiden name Wilson

Death registration in 1975 with birthdate of 25 December 1890

He’s on the 1891 census with parents Charles and Annie. There’s also a brother called Charles who appears to have died later on.

Possible marriage in Preston of Charles Mantell to Annie Eliza Wilson in 1884

Charles (the father) was born about 1858 in Birmingham.

 His father, also Charles, was  born about 1820 was married to Priscilla. This Charles was born about 1820 in HoptonWafers Shropshire. (Taken from census returns)

There is a baptism in Hopton Wafers on 30 April 1820 for Charles Mantell son of James and Sarah.

The above needs further research to prove it but could it fit?

[yecartmannew]

There’s this one

Charles Creighton Mantell
March Q 1890
Birmingham
Vol 6D page 57
Mother’s maiden name Wilson

Death registration in 1975 with birthdate of 25 December 1890

Possible marriage in Preston of Charles Mantell to Annie Eliza Wilson in 1884

These are the correct people:

Charles Creighton Mantell b.28 Dec 1889 b'ham d. 28 Jun 1975 Rubery hospital, never married

His father Charles Mantell b. 1858 b'ham d. 3 may 1926 b'ham m. Oct 1884 Peston to Annie Eliza Wilson

His grandfather Charles Mantell b.1820 Hopton Wafers d.sometime after 1891 m. Pricilla Bennett

His great grandfather James Mantell b.1771 Cleobury Mortimer d. Sometime after 1851 m Sarah (possibly last name  ew)

Then we have:

Joan Lily Mantell b.21 Oct 1918 B'ham d.28 Sep 1985 Malvern, m.18 Sept 1939 Harold Maurice Trigg

Her father Henry Mantell b.5 Oct 1872 B'ham d.17 May 1944 B'ham m.31 Jan 1917 Marie Turbefield

Her grandfather Henry Mantell b.abt 1845 B'ham d.Jul 1927 B'ham m. 25 May 1871 Carrs Lane Capel, Birmingham to Catherine Alexander

Her great grandfather as given on Henry and Catherine's marriage certificate is Thomas Mantell, deceased, Millwright

I haven't had chance to evaluate or log any of the info found on this thread yet but lots of it looks like it might be helpful.

[Gibel]

Your Henry born about 1845 is a bit of a mystery.  I can’t see a birth registration for him. I have now found him on the 1861 census aged 15 a hairdresser born Birmingham. Do you have a birth certificate or a baptism for him?