Lily Hilton Parkinson

[scarboroughsarah]

I would go with what you see. The marriage cert is a scanned image of original on Ancestry. Also you know that James Brown was not born Grundy.

He was a nurse child in 1891, his foster mother Ann married Peter Grundy in 1892 he then stayed with the family and took on the Grundy surname. 

Martha Ann Foster was the illegitimate child of Ann Foster, baptism and GRO birth reg verifies. She is Martha Grundy in 1901. Married as Martha A Grundy in 1910.

All this can be verified by census, GRO birth reg around birthdate and pob. There is no birth reg or bapt to connect James to Ann Foster.  Also online trees have some or same evidence. I know that online trees can have misleading info, but some get it right.

I do not have anymore suggestions to help, sorry, rather than what information is given on thread by all.

Best wishes.  Good luck with your search

Cas

Hi Cas, thanks for your reply. I'm beginning to think that James Brown Grundy was born James Brown to a mother called someone Brown and maybe she died shortly after his birth or couldn't cope and gave him away (hence he is a nurse child aged 5 on the 1891 census). I thought Ann Foster was his mother perhaps but it definitely says James Brown on the 1891 census not James Brown Foster.....
I've tried finding a William Beech Grundy or a William Grundy (with a mother's maiden name of Beech) on Ancestry but am having no luck.

Do registrars collect the original marriage registers from the churches that the marriages occurred in once they are full? I was thinking I might do a road trip to see Abram Parish Church where James married Lily Hilton Parkinson in 1915 to see the marriage register myself!

Thanks again Cas. Your input has helped keep me thinking and motivated! :-)

[Cas (stallc)]

Hi,

Have you considered getting the birth certs for Lily and James given in reply #1 and reply #10 to see if they match birth dates given in 1939 register entry for couple. One or both may help to confirm if these are yours.

HILTON, LILY  - (no mother name listed but reply #3 has her as Hilton born Upholland)
GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 163

BROWN, JAMES  mmn BEECH (This is the only entry for birthdate given and POB)
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in ORMSKIRK  Volume 08B  Page 862

Also another possibility is the William Beech mentioned as father could be a family member of his mother, as he had no knowledge of his 'Brown' father. It has not been unknown that people did that.

Just a thought

Also in reply #2 Lancs OPC has the father's name as William Beech. (No Grundy)

Can you take a screenshot of father's name from the copy you received from GRO, can then compare to original on Ancestry to see if added? Ancestry has the scanned copy of original.

[scarboroughsarah]

Hi,

Have you considered getting the birth certs for Lily and James given in reply #1 and reply #10 to see if they match birth dates given in 1939 register entry for couple. One or both may help to confirm if these are yours.

HILTON, LILY  - (no mother name listed but reply #3 has her as Hilton born Upholland)
GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 163

BROWN, JAMES  mmn BEECH (This is the only entry for birthdate given and POB)
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in ORMSKIRK  Volume 08B  Page 862

Also another possibility is the William Beech mentioned as father could be a family member of his mother, as he had no knowledge of his 'Brown' father. It has not been unknown that people did that.

Just a thought

Also in reply #2 Lancs OPC has the father's name as William Beech. (No Grundy)

Can you take a screenshot of father's name from the copy you received from GRO, can then compare to original on Ancestry to see if added? Ancestry has the scanned copy of original.

Hi again

I have ordered the certificate for Lily Hilton born in Upholland but haven't received it yet.

Does anyone know if it's possible to trace babies given up for adoption (in case Ann Foster isn't James Brown's birth mother - maybe she was his foster mother)??

Thanks again everyone! :-)

[Cas (stallc)]

https://reviews.history.ac.uk/review/806

No formal adoption until 1926 this states.

Child adoption had no legal status in Britain (including under the separate legal system of Scotland) until 1926, when the first Act was passed which regulated this in England and Wales. Until then, child adoption was an informal and generally secretive procedure which gave the adoptive parents no rights whatsoever: a biological parent could (and in some cases, did) appear at any time and demand custody of a child they had neither seen nor contributed to the care of for years at a time.

Let us know how you get on with the birthdates.

Cas