Lily Hilton Parkinson

[Cas (stallc)]

I think reply #4 by Mabel is on to something.

Alice Finch c1854 who states Lily is niece in 1911 - her sister Fanny Jones married Edward Parkinson in 1892. They had a son John Parkinson c1893 who could be the witness on Lily marriage cert.

It would be niece through marriage as Edward would be her brother in law.

Alice was born out of wedlock to Ann Oliver, single woman, so was named Alice Oliver on her bapt. Possibly her father was James Jones. She became Jones on census after her mother's marriage to James  later in 1854. (Married as Alice Oliver)

I think it was known that Edward Parkinson fathered Lily before marriage to Fanny.

Possibly he is a grocer in 1921 nearer the marriage. Unable to see image just free index, but he is still alive in 1921 with Fanny. 1911 he is a Brewers carrier/carter.

Just my thoughts, all can be seen in census, connection between Alice and Fanny, not posted census as see what the poster thinks.

Cas

[Cas (stallc)]

James Brown Grundy.  (On a few trees as James Brown aka Grundy)

1939 register has birthdate 18 Jan 1886. Only birth reg that fits with place and timeframe given in census. Interesting the name Beech which is included on marriage cert.

Birth reg
BROWN, JAMES       mmn BEECH 
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in ORMSKIRK  Volume 08B  Page 862
 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:77G4-S3Z has surname as Brook
1891- North Meols, Lancashire
Jane Foster 57   Head
John Foster 26   Son
Ann Foster 23   Daughter
James Broan   5   Nurse Child, Southport, Lancashire (image looks like Brown)
Martha A Foster, 1   Grandchild (daughter of Ann on bapt.)

A nurse child is a young child being brought up in the household of someone other than the parents, normally for money, but not always. It could be a paid or unpayed arrangement for the parent or guardian to work.

Marriage
Peter Grundy - Ann Foster same page
Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec    1892
Registration District:   Ormskirk
Volume:   8b Page:   1235

1901 - Ashton in Makerfield
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9L3-PJW

Peter Grundy   49
Ann Grundy   34
James Grundy   15, Southport
Martha Grundy   11
Richard Grundy   8
Edward Grundy   6

1911- Ashton in Makerfield
unable to post details against copyright

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWY6-RVV


If your looking for family in 1921on FindMyPast (under free index not viewed full record), Lily is transcribed as Cily Grandy  she is in Orrell, Wigan. With James, Reggie Clifford and 2 others.

Cas

[scarboroughsarah]

Thank you so much to everyone who has posted on this topic! 
I am amazed how fast you all dived in and gave me so much info.

Some of it I'm already aware of (the Finch family connection)....I followed that line but then became unsure if Lily Parkinson on the 1911 census with the Finch family was the right Lily Parkinson after all (got cold feet!).
It's just so strange that she is missing from the two censuses before that (1901 and 1891) as she would have been about 3 months on the 1891 census and 10 years old on the 1901 census....
Thanks for the James Brown Grundy clues too....I'll look into them all (especially the William Beech connection)....

[scarboroughsarah]

I looked into the Possible birth reg
BROWN, JAMES       mmn BEECH
GRO Reference: 1886  M Quarter in ORMSKIRK  Volume 08B  Page 862

but having thought it through some more don't think this can be James. I think his mother was Ann Foster, who was single until she married a Peter Grundy in 1892. Her maiden name therefore would be Foster not Beech.....it's James' father that is called Beech....
Not sure where the Brown bit of James Brown Grundy comes from either though now I come to think of it!

Or where the Hilton bit in Lily Hilton Parkinson comes from (the Lily who was living with the Finch family on the 1911 census I have researched another generation or two back and there is no sign of a Hilton surname anywhere....maybe the person who said that maybe she was born as Lily Hilton and the Parkinson surname was added after her mother married a Parkinson was right, except that I thought Fanny Jones was her mother until just now as she married an Edward Parkinson in 1892).....he wasn't a grocer though like is stated on the marriage register!

[Mabel Bagshawe]

If you look back up the thread you'll see I started on the Lily with the Finches trail, but also got cold feet. his was because I couldn't find Lily and Fanny together, even though her son Benjamin, also born prior to marriage, was with Fanny and Edward. I also couldn't find that Alice had a sister called Fanny

it also didn't explain the Hilton - which made me lean towards Lillie Hilton on 1891, because at least we can find her as a small child!

[Mabel Bagshawe]

The other interesting thing perhaps is there is a John Parkinson and family in Lily Lane, the address Lily uses when she married

[Cas (stallc)]

Hi, this is the connection I meant by census

1861 Holy Trinity Lancashire
James Jones   30
Ann Jones   27
Noah Jones   5
Mary Ellen Jones   3
Fanny Jones 2 mths
Elizabeth Olliver   63

1871 - Pemberton
James Jones 40   Head
Ann Jones 35   Wife
Alice Jones 17, Daughter
(baptised as Alice Oliver as born before parents married. Also married Richard Finch as Alice Oliver)
Noah Jones 15   Son
Mary Ellen Jones 12   Daughter
Jemima Jones 7   Daughter
Effeldiphar Jones 5   Daughter
Lavinia Jones 3   Daughter
Elizabeth Oliver 72   Mother-in-law   

Both Alice and Fanny were not together on census, but are from the same family.

Alice Oliver
Birth Date:   2 Apr 1854
Baptism Date:   7 May 1854
Baptism Place:   Wigan, All Saints, Lancashire, England
Mother:   Ann Oliver, single woman

JONES, FANNY   mmn  OLIVER 
GRO Reference: 1861  M Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 110

Ann Oliver & James Jones married 1854 after bapt.

So as Lily is niece to Alice Finch in 1911 the connection is likely through her sister's husband.

Prior to 1911 census I believe she is Lily Hilton, her parents never married.

Best wishes with your search

Cas

[scarboroughsarah]

Hi again

Fascinating!

Can I just ask Cas (stallc) what makes you think Lily Hilton's parents never married? Who were her parents and how do you know please?
Also, you said "I think it was known that Edward Parkinson fathered Lily before marriage to Fanny."
Who was it known by and how please?

Thanks again everyone for all your input, I will continue searching :-)

[Cas (stallc)]

Hi,

It's just having done family history for a number of decades, you realize that things are not always straight forward. As is life.

If there was a marriage or census entry that put Lily with Parkinson parents then it would have been found. There was illegitimate births then as there are today.  Many embellished details on marriage certs as they don't know facts or just want to save face.

Normally, in my experience, if a person holds a middle name which is a surname like name, it could mean they were registered under that name. If you cannot place them readily in census with family, or a corresponding birth entry ect.

I think Lily knew who her father was and took his name after 1911.  She states that on her marriage cert. Maybe she did not know his occupation?  Maybe by 1915 he had changed occupation to what is found in census?

With the clue of being neice in 1911 to Alice Finch there is all probability that her Brother in Law Edward was Lily father.  Alice Finch was illegitimate as well, so maybe wanted to give Lily her rightful place as neice?

Mary Jane Hilton (see census entries above) and Edward Parkinson were around the same age, lived around the same area.  Maybe the relationship was short lived and they went on to marry others.  Only the people involved know.

Possibly DNA testing could help you move forward, I have found it beneficial to confirm many parts of my paper trail.

Just my thoughts

Cas