Barnes family - Milton/Fifield areas

[linnet27]

I am hoping someone might be up for a challenge!!  I am searching for an unknown grandfather and have several dna links to the family of John Barnes 1806 & Sarah Jackson 1811 from Milton under Wychwood. 

I also have some dna links to another Barnes family but have been unable to connect the two families.  The links are in New Zealand and I have connected these to Charles Barnes b. 1860 in Chipping Norton who emigrated and married in NZ in 1882. 

Charles was the son of Thomas Barnes b. 1831 and Ann Mary Slatter from Fifield. 
Thomas was the son of William Barnes b. 1803 and Sarah Castle also Fifield.

I have been looking at this for so long, I am probably missing something obvious, so would really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions!

Lynne

[ColC]

When William married Sarah Castle in Stow on the Wold, Gloucestershire in 1828
one of the witnesses was a John Barnes.

William was noted as of Shipton, as there are two places in Gloucestershire and two in Oxfordshire that begin Shipton it is not clear which but could it be Shipton under Wychwood, where John married Sarah Jackson in 1830?

Trees on Ancestry name William’s father Henry b 1781 and John’s Richard b 1775, not sure about that yet but presume these.

William Barnes Father Henry Barnes 16 Mar 1806 Burford, Oxfordshire (Wrong year)

The only one I can find to match your post is William Barnes 23 Dec 1803 Beckford, Gloucestershire, parents Thomas & Ann, is this the one?
(William & Sarah’s eldest son was Thomas, so looks more likely.

John Barns parents Richard Barns & Ann 3 Aug 1806 Shipton under Wychwood, Oxfordshire.

John & Sarah, had two sons baptised 2 Feb 1840 (Not noted as twins) John & Edwyn, as far as I can see no Richard.

The only link I can find from the above is the marriage of William with the witness John but that is very tenuous it may be a different John altogether. The information posted appears on most of the Ancestry tree, are they correct I wonder?

The link. If any, falters at the birth of William 1803 & John 1806, the connection would appear to be much earlier.

Colin

[linnet27]

Thank you so much for your reply Colin.  This really is a tricky one!  I have seen the marriage of William & Sarah at Stow on the Wold.  Their children appear to have been baptised at Fifield Church, the youngest after the death of William in 1842, entry is marked Sarah, Widow.

I have William's parents as Henry and Sara but am not sure about them.

I believe John and Sarah Jackson had 11 children between 1831 and 1856.  Jane, William, James, John, Edwin, George, Richard, Sarah, Fred, Ann, Ruth.  I have dna matches to 5 of these lines.  John's father was Richard married to Ann Russell.

Place names are also confusing, but most seem to be Milton or Shipton under Wychwood.

There has to be a connection somewhere!

Lynne

[ColC]

I guess this is the death of William?

BARNES, WILLIAM    died age 39 
GRO Reference: 1842  S Quarter in CHIPPING NORTON  Volume 16  Page 35

Children of William & Sarah baptised Fifield

Thos Barns 10 Apr 1831, George Barns 14 Oct 1832, Alice Barnes 17 Aug 1834, Fredek Barns 6 Nov 1836,

Ann Jane Barnes 11 May 1845, Sarah a widow., father deceased noted. (No GRO so maybe born earlier)?

If they followed the English naming pattern, although not all did, I would have expected the first male child to be named after the father. In this case it looks unlikely, it does not appear that William had a son Henry, and John’s son Richard is the 6th male?

I wonder if the naming pattern had been followed in the later 1800s?

Colin

[linnet27]

William's death fits perfectly!  I have 27 Aug 1842 age 39

Ann Jane was born 1842, the year William died.

Just need the correct parents for William now 

[ColC]

I have had another look at your post.

1861 Milton, Oxfordshire
Thomas Barnes   29   Fifield
Ann Barnes   30   Fifield
Alice Barnes   5   Fifield
William Barnes   3   Milton
Charles Barnes   6/12   Milton

Thomas Barnes married Ann Slatter 29 May 1853 Fifield, Oxfordshire,
Both fathers William witness 2 Alice Barnes

1841 Fifield. (By 1851 Sarah is a widow, with children below plus Ann 9)
William Barns 35 a Woodman Sarah Barns 35 Thomas Barns 9 George Barns 8
Alice Barns 7 Fredrich Barns 5 Emely Barns 1 (All born in County)

Also in 1841 on the same census schedule is a John Barns 40 Woodman, born in County & Sarah Barns 45, not born in County. In 1851, still there, John 46, born Milton, Sarah 50. None of the children you mention below are present at either census.

(Jane, William, James, John, Edwin, George, Richard, Sarah, Fred, Ann, Ruth).

In 1841 John Barnes 30 and his wife Sarah Jackson and some of the above children are in
Shipton Under Wychwood  (Note the 1841 census was rounded down to the nearest 5)

The question is do you have the right John Barnes?

So the John Barnes who was witness at the marriage of William and both in Fifield in 1841
I think he married Sarah Herman 26 Jan 1824 Shipton under Wychwood
Both of the parish.

The question is how are William & John related?

Colin

[linnet27]

Oh goodness Colin, I wish you hadn't    I knew this was going to be tricky! 

I am fairly confident about John Barnes and Sarah Jackson, as I have dna matches to both and one of my matches is sure they are correct.  I have Sarah's birth as Ascott under Wychwood.

  I now need to be sure of the link to the NZ Barnes, where I have at least 3 matches.  I wish they had used some unusual names for their children!  I will look to see if any of them have trees that might give us a clue.

Thanks again for your continued support!
Lynne

[ColC]

Hi Lynne, hope you can follow this epistle?

When William married Sarah Castle in Stow on the Wold, Gloucestershire in 1828
one of the witnesses was a John Barnes. I guess this was the one on the 1841 census.
It looks likely that he and his wife Sarah did not have any children.

So back to this John.

John Barns   Baptism   3 Aug 1806   Shipton under Wychwood   Richard & Ann
Sarah Jackson   Baptism   14 Apr 1811   Ascott under Wychwood   Wm

They had 11 children between 1831 and 1856.  Jane, William, James, John, Edwin, George, Richard, Sarah, Fred, Ann, Ruth.

******

Richard Barns to Ann Russel 18 Dec 1803 Shipton under Wychwood, Oxfordshire both of Milton noted on marriage banns.

Shipton under Wychwood, the only other child baptised there for Richard & Ann was Hannah
28 Aug 1808

A tree suggests this is Richards’s family, which seems to be correct.

Robert Barnes had the following children baptised Shipton under Wychwood.
Mothers name not noted on baptisms but possible marriage below.

Robert Barnes to Elizabeth Harris
Marriage   4 Nov 1758 Shipton under Wychwood, Oxfordshire

Alice Barnes 10 Feb 1760
John Barnes 25 Jul 1762
William Barnes 17 Feb 1765  - presume died no record.
Robert Barnes 20 Nov 1768
Richard 15 Oct 1776*
Mary 15 Oct 1776*
William 2 Jul 1780

*Baptised the same day but not noted as Twins, the year is actually 1775, transcription error.

A William Barnes married Sarah Burdock 15 May 1802 Witney, St Mary, Oxfordshire.
Could this be William 1780 above?

Could this be their son?
William Barnes   Baptism   31 Jul 1803   Witney, St Mary   William,Sarah

If so William & Richard were brothers. However a tree on Ancestry has the William that married as Sarah Burdock born 1776, father Robert. I think they may be wrong.

Colin

[ColC]

Just to clarify why I think the tree on Ancestry is wrong, they have Robert & Elizabeth Harris as the parents of William below. I think the noted parents are the wrong ones.

William Barnes   Baptism   16 Apr 1775   Cuddesdon   Robert,Elizabeth

William Barnes   Baptism   7 Jul 1776   Cuddesdon   Robert,Elizabeth

Abode of Denton, presume the first child died, no other children to this couple.

A Robert Barns married Ann Davis, both of Cuddesdon, 24 Jan 1768 Steeple Barton, Oxfordshire

They had several children at Cuddesdon; each of their baptisms noted their abode as Denton.

Colin