1703 Letter - Having Trouble Deciphering a Few Words (& Name)

[nat11911]

Good morning! This scan shows part of a letter dated 1703, in a pretty horrible hand, and I can't for the life of me make out the name underlined... The two lines shown I have are as follows:

Wryte over this discloseyte with your own hand & substeyne it,
and send it to me by Arthur Arne or way vyr your utmost/you intrust ??

All suggestions appreciated. Many thanks.

Chris

[violetqueen]

guessing wildly ,so no help ,sorry - vigorous horse ??

can you post any more detail of what you have deciphered ?With the original and your translation ?

[horselydown86]

Wryte over this discharge with your oun hand & subscrybe it

and send it to me by [Rithard? / Richard?] Rae or any [vyr?] you intrust

In Latin vir = man.

I can't see the fourth last word properly but if it is vyr then that may be the meaning.

Do we have the full first line in the clip?

[Bookbox]

Is it not Richard Row or Roe ? This name is often used as a 'dummy' name for any trusted person, like 'John Doe'.

[nat11911]

Thanks for the replies. I’ve never heard of the ‘Jane Doe’/‘Richard Roe’ connection, but I can’t get away from the ‘th’ preceeded by what looks like an ‘r’ (which has the makings of ‘Arthur’) but which is quite possibly a ‘c’ (the makings of ‘Richard’). And the capital looks more like an upside-down ‘A’ than an ‘R’.  I favour ‘substeyne’ [Old Scots] over ‘subscribe’ as ‘substeyne’ means ‘to establish as a means of proof’, and it fits well with the rest of the text asking the recipient to sign and return a document. Yes, it’s almost certainly ‘vyr’, so thanks for the Latin tip – I like that.

The 2 lines in the scan (complete lines) are from para 2 of a 2-para reply on the reverse of a letter from a son to his father, which dad then returned to his son. The son’s letter is fully transcribed, and dad’s reply (the one we’re looking at here) is 50/60% completed.

Thanks a lot.

[Bookbox]

I favour ‘substeyne’ [Old Scots] over ‘subscribe’ as ‘substeyne’ means ‘to establish as a means of proof’, and it fits well with the rest of the text asking the recipient to sign and return a document.

I believe subscrybe is correct, as read by horselydown86, not 'substeyne'.

The c in the middle looks like t because it’s joined in ligature to the preceding s (compare discharge, which has exactly the same sc ligature).

The c is followed by a letter r (compare the last letter of your, in the same line).

The penultimate letter is b (compare with the 3rd letter of this word, which is clearly b).

So I must go with subscrybe. Perhaps we can agree to differ.

[nat11911]

Thanks Bookbox. I agree with you that the word does appear to be closer to 'subscrybe' than 'substeyne', but when I was searching an Old Scots dictionary ('subs*') it suggested both, and with a little creativity I was able to convince myself the latter was more appropriate. But I concede, you're probably right, so I'll amend my transcript to 'subscrybe'.

Cheers!

[nat11911]

And another thanks to horsleydown for the 'any vyr' ('any man'). Great stuff. Cheers

[GR2]

In a Scots document of this period vyr would be an an abbreviation of vther = other.