Author Topic: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?  (Read 1087 times)

Offline CarterDockerty

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:00 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much, I'm 99% sure that Jack Walter Williams isn't our James William Williams, however, here's a little more to explain why I was looking. 

When JWW married the great grandmother (1907) he referenced his profession as miner.    In the 1911 census, completed by his grandfather (his mother's father) his profession was listed as "coal miner, when at work" < which first of all had us thinking that perhaps he was a footballer and that the family didn't think this was a "real job".  But on reading the 1914 reports, when he was sentenced to 2 months for abandoning the great grandmother he was described as a "loiterer", I wonder if it was football or just talk. 

I have JWW from his birth cert as born on 15 Dec 1883 in Washington, Co. Durham - his WWI register of effects and pension details support this, with the grandmother referenced on it.    He served in the 22nd DLI battalion, the Pioneers (they dug comms trenches, laid railway lines) and then in March 1918 had to fight as infantrymen.  JWW died on 25th March 1918 and is commemorated on the Poziere memorial. 

There was no mention of a footballing ancestor until we started looking at the history, and my father in law dug out his parent's marriage certificate and noticed that when his mother, Mary Ethel Williams, referenced her father as James William Williams "Professional Footballer" (deceased.) 

I think it might be a bit beyond him to have created a pseudonym - but will try looking at Jack Walter and see if it isn't beyond the realms of possibility. 
Dockerty (Co. Durham and Co. Mayo, Ireland) - Dougherty, Doherty + Curran (Co. Durham and Co Monaghan, Ireland) + McCourt (Co Durham and Cumberland), + Unthank (Cumberland) + Ellison (Co Durham), Williams (Gloucestershire + Co Durham)

Offline Gadget

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:28 GMT (UK) »
I'm wondering if the fact that there were 2 James William Williams playing football at the same time meant  that your one changed his 'professional'  name. It seems more than a coincidence that Jack Walter is down as b, Dec 1885, Washington - 3s and 5s are very similar and could have been wrongly written in the accounts. Jack seems to fit most of the details. We really need to find  football reports or whatever that gives his full name.

What address was he living at in 1901?
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Offline CarterDockerty

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:39 GMT (UK) »
In 1901 he was at 23 New Rows, Usworth Durham - so it's not unrealistic that he could have played for Hebburn Arygle.   

He was aged 18 on the census, single, working as a "coal putter - below" and was staying with his grandparents (mother's parents), with his brother Joseph (aged 8)
Dockerty (Co. Durham and Co. Mayo, Ireland) - Dougherty, Doherty + Curran (Co. Durham and Co Monaghan, Ireland) + McCourt (Co Durham and Cumberland), + Unthank (Cumberland) + Ellison (Co Durham), Williams (Gloucestershire + Co Durham)

Offline CarterDockerty

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:40 GMT (UK) »
oops. his brother Joseph was aged 8.
Dockerty (Co. Durham and Co. Mayo, Ireland) - Dougherty, Doherty + Curran (Co. Durham and Co Monaghan, Ireland) + McCourt (Co Durham and Cumberland), + Unthank (Cumberland) + Ellison (Co Durham), Williams (Gloucestershire + Co Durham)


Online heywood

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:50 GMT (UK) »
Has anyone found Jack Walter in censuses or birth records?

If the newspaper article references the footballer abandoning his wife, do you think that is coincidence?

Ignore that. I see the abandonment was in the name of James William. I was getting confused.  ::)
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Offline CarterDockerty

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 29 January 22 17:04 GMT (UK) »
The Sunderland Echo article (1914), referencing him being sentenced to 2 months hard labour says that he had been previously convicted 3 times for a similar offence (for abandoning his wife and children) (and his wife was as much to blame as him (!).

I've attached the report I pulled from the English National Football Archive about Jack Williams and discounted.  I also have the specific games that Jack played for Bury, Clapton Orient. 

Dockerty (Co. Durham and Co. Mayo, Ireland) - Dougherty, Doherty + Curran (Co. Durham and Co Monaghan, Ireland) + McCourt (Co Durham and Cumberland), + Unthank (Cumberland) + Ellison (Co Durham), Williams (Gloucestershire + Co Durham)

Offline Gadget

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 29 January 22 17:30 GMT (UK) »
There doesn't seem to be  a John or Jack or Jacob Walter Williams* in the GRO records** that fits the info from the football records  I'm  thinking he used an alias.

* also excluding Walter
** Chester le Street was the Reg Dist for Washington in those days
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Offline hanes teulu

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 29 January 22 17:54 GMT (UK) »
Newcastle Journal, 18 Aug 1910
"South Shields A.F.C. have signed on two new forwards, namely Grainger of Blyth Spartans and Williams of Clapton Orient. The latter player scored 8 goals in one match last season."

Online heywood

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 29 January 22 18:20 GMT (UK) »
Sorry!

No here it is - I know nothing about football and thought Clapton Orient was a northern club  ::)
http://lc4mkm.xara.hosting/orientdiary/orientdiary.htm

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