Author Topic: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?  (Read 1075 times)

Offline CarterDockerty

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James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 12:36 GMT (UK) »
I am researching my family tree and found that my husband's great grandfather apparently played for Clapton Orient and/or Bury football clubs before WWI, but I seem to have ground to a halt in identifying if he was a player for either or even if he did indeed start for them. 

His name was James William Williams, born around 1884 and he died on the Somme in 1918.  He is NOT the welsh footballer of the same name, but a North East England "sometime coal miner".  He is identified as a "Professional Footballer (Deceased)"  on the grandmother's marriage certificate, which started our search.   We found reference to his playing for Orient in a newpaper article -(Sunderland Daily Echo of 1914) unfortunately it referenced him abandoning my great-grandmother, but the clubs mentioned were Clapton Orient and Bury. 

I've tried the fan club of Orient, but Bury went into administration.

So, rather a long-winded way of asking if anyone has any ideas of finding out if he did actually play football professionally?  My father-in-law (now in his 80's) also had some football trials in his youth, so we're trying to clear this up for him.
 
Many thanks in advance for reading this, Sarah

Researching:  Williams (Gloucs, Durham), Dockerty (Durham, Co Mayo, Yorkshire), Curran (Durham, Co Monaghan), McCourt (Cumberland, Durham)
Dockerty (Co. Durham and Co. Mayo, Ireland) - Dougherty, Doherty + Curran (Co. Durham and Co Monaghan, Ireland) + McCourt (Co Durham and Cumberland), + Unthank (Cumberland) + Ellison (Co Durham), Williams (Gloucestershire + Co Durham)

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 29 January 22 14:19 GMT (UK) »
There is a web site dedicated to players and ex-players who died in WW1:-

https://www.footballandthefirstworldwar.org/

I have searched for players / ex-players of both Bury and Clapham Orient and James William Williams is not mentioned. Searching the whole site by player's name only comes up with a John Williams who died in 1916. It is possible that site does not hold the names of all of the footballers that served and died in WW1.

ADDED The newspaper article that you mentioned gives his age as 34 years thus implying that he was born circa 1880. The only birth registration that I can find for a James William Williams was for the March quarter 1884 in the Chester le Street district, mothers maiden name of Shipley. Would this be 'your man'?

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 29 January 22 14:44 GMT (UK) »
Daily Mirror, 3 Sep 1909
Clapton Orient open their league campaign tomorrow ...L A Louch, the amateur centre forward ... his place will be taken by Williams.
Williams, who comes from the Bury club, is a thickset, bustling type of forward and he scored the only goal which enabled the Orient reserves to defeat Croydon Common reserves at Selhurst on Wednesday.

Of course, more Williamses than you can shake a stick at - but will check for possible transfer press report.

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 29 January 22 14:45 GMT (UK) »
The only James William Williams that I can find in my Football League Players Records (1888-1939) who played for Bury (1906) was, I think,  the Welsh one.
b. Buckley (? Wrexham) May 1884  2 caps for Wales.
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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 29 January 22 14:51 GMT (UK) »
There is a Jack Walter Williams b, Washington 12.1885 who played for Bury 1904- 1905 and Clapton/Leyton in 1909

PS he first played for Hebburn Argyle
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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 29 January 22 14:56 GMT (UK) »
The Jack Walter Williams would fit the report you found,HT

There is a Jack Walter Williams b, Washington 12.1885 who played for Bury 1904- 1905 and Clapton/Leyton in 1909

PS he first played for Hebburn Argyle


Daily Mirror, 3 Sep 1909
Clapton Orient open their league campaign tomorrow ...L A Louch, the amateur centre forward ... his place will be taken by Williams.
Williams, who comes from the Bury club, is a thickset, bustling type of forward and he scored the only goal which enabled the Orient reserves to defeat Croydon Common reserves at Selhurst on Wednesday.
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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 29 January 22 15:22 GMT (UK) »
Finding Williams with his initial/s in any of the Clapton Orient match reports is proving difficult. He's always referred to as just "Williams". In one match where Clapton scored 8, and the scorers named with their initials, he failed to score!!

The newspaper report of his deserting his wife and 3 children in 1914 gives his age as 34 (born c.1880)

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Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 29 January 22 15:43 GMT (UK) »
I do think that the one that I've found fits the OP's football career  info and localities.
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