Herbert Hughes Born 1848 Montgomery, montgomeryshire

[smallholderitm]

The above named was the son of Richard and Mary Hughes.  In 1971 census he was at St Woollos Barracks in Newtown.  It appears he was in the 23 Fusiliers.  Would that have been the Royal Welch fusiliers?  I cannot find any trace of him in the 1881, 1891, 1901 census and he reappears in London between 1909 and 1912 appearing in various Poor Law institutions and Infirmaries. He had been married to a woman, surname Lewis and they had a son Ernest Thomas Hughes born 1889, but by 1909 he was a widower.  I cannot trace his son Ernest Thomas either in the census but in 1915 Ernest married Alice Evans in Berriew, Montgomeryshire, giving his father as Herbert Hughes, labourer.
How can I find Herbert's Army record and his and family's whereabouts 1871-1909.  Also I cannot find a trace of his marriage.  I only know her surname from the GRO indexes of Ernest's birth.
I would be most grateful for any help.
Many thanks.

[osprey]

is this the birth reg?

Ernest Thomas Hughes march qtr 1890 Ross vol 6a pg 470 mmn Lewis

wrong family - see second post   

If so, 1901 census he's in Buckton & Coxall with parents Herbert James, labourer, and Mary Jane

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X91Z-9HD

Family without Ernest Thomas is in Shropshire in 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X72H-QTN

23rd Fusiliers was indeed the Royal Welch Fusiliers but I don't think that Herbert Hughes from 1871 is the father of Ernest Thomas

[osprey]

The births of the younger children are registered at Knighton with mother's maiden name Breeze which ties in with this marriage
31 March 1891 parish church of Clun
James Herbert Hughes 24 bachelor labourer Bucknell father Timothy Hughes labourer
Mary Jane Breeze 27 spinster Clun father Thomas Breeze labourer
witnesses Joseph Thomas & Elizabeth Breeze

Correct birth reg for this Ernest Thomas
Ernest Thomas Hughes Breeze march qtr 1891 Clun mmn -

Sorry, wrong family 

Think you may need the birth cert to get further with your Ernest Thomas.

[Comberton]

Not sure whether this is your man.

British Army, Worldwide Index 1871
Herbert Hughes service number 1596
private 1st Bn 23rd  (Royal Welch Fusiliers) Regiment of Foot
HQ location Newport (Mons.) Wales

[osprey]

just checked the marriage entry for Ernest Thomas and his occupation is noted as baker on that. There is an Ernest Hughes enumerated as baker in the area in 1911, birthplace Clun

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JX-CBC

Have you checked his entry on the 1921 census?

I still think there's a good chance that this Ernest Thomas is the son of Herbert James Hughes & Mary Jane Breeze.
Baptism in Clun 25 March 1891 Ernest Thomas Hughes son of Mary Jane Breeze of Hospital Lane.

1891 census for Ernest Thomas aged 2 months with parents & grandmother Ann Breeze
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W9BD-G2M

[osprey]

ok, found the baptism of the Ernest Thomas Hughes whose birth was registered at Ross

2 March 1890 at Walford, date of birth 30 Dec 1889 so registered next quarter
Ernest Thomas son of John, labourer, and Eliza Hughes.

1891 census in Walford, Herefordshire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TCR-TN2

marriage in Walford 23 Nov 1868 for John Hughes & Eliza Lewis

1911 census in Walford, Ernest is a cowman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JY-6ZC

[smallholderitm]

Many thanks all of you for your replies.  Herbert is the gt grandfather of my friend, for whom I am trying to do this research.  Ernest Thomas is the son of Herbert Hughes as he states on his marriage certificate.  His age seems to vary a great deal, so I have just telephoned my friend to see if she has proof of his date of birth as his age varies from dob 1889 in 1939 register, to being aged 27 on marriage (1888) to being aged 31 in 1921 census ie born1890.  When I have that I can move forward perhaps.  I do feel that the 1871 information is "my" Herbert and I am wondering whether the family were away doing soldierly stuff during the census's.  I would also agree that the 1911 census is the correct one, but the baptism in Walford I do not think is the correct one.  Herbert was baptised Herbert with no other names on 13 February 1848 to Richard and Mary Hughes of Montgomery.  I have checked the 1921 census for Herbert but can find no trace.  I am wondering if he was a vagrant of no fixed abode (perhaps in 1911 census this was the case as well).
I shall report back if/when I can confirm anything else.

Many thanks for taking the time to assist.

Best wishes to all

[osprey]

if you think that the 1911 census is the correct one, then Ernest Thomas was the son of Herbert James Hughes, labourer, and Mary Jane Breeze, born and baptised as Ernest Thomas Hughes Breeze as he was born before their marriage. His birth place is noted as Clun on census entries.

The Walford baptism is the one that goes with the Ernest Thomas Hughes registered Ross with mother's maiden name Lewis.

I meant have you found Ernest Thomas on the 1921 census to see what he gives as his place of birth?

The Herbert in London in 1911 gives his occupation as tailor's presser, not labourer as noted on Ernest's marriage entry.

The Herbert Hughes, labourer & father of Ernest Thomas the baker, was baptised in Bucknell, Shropshire 5 Aug 1866 son of Timothy, labourer, and Elizabeth Hughes.

[smallholderitm]

Just to say thank you to all of you who have tried to assist with this enquiry, and who steered me onto the correct path.  The baptism in Clun IS the correct one and I have found this Herbert in 1921 and 1939.  My friend is delighted so I thank you all very much for your assistance - especially Osprey for continuing in face of my obstinance.