Author Topic: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request  (Read 941 times)

Offline Tikva

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New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« on: Thursday 20 January 22 03:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I am trying to find the military record for my childrens' Māori great great grandfather, who went by a number of names, but have so far been unsuccessful.  I've finally managed to obtain a copy of a photo in which he's wearing his uniform, although it's primarily a head shot, and whilst the 28th Māori Battalion is well known, it's possible he served with a 24th or 25th Māori Battalion or Regiment.  Can anyone provide any assistance based on the attached photograph?  Many thanks in advance.

Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline Neale1961

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 20 January 22 05:58 GMT (UK) »
Tikva, 2 quick questions:
What was his date of birth?
Is it possible to get a clearer  and close up picture of the cap badge?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Tikva

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:02 GMT (UK) »
Tivka, 2 quick questions:
What was his date of birth?
Is it possible to get a clearer  and close up picture of the cap badge?

As far as we know, he was born 9 July 1900.  Given that he was Māori, and it wasn't a requirement for his birth to be registered in New Zealand at that time, it might not be 100% accurate.  I'll see what I can do with the close up of the cap badge, but the image I've been given isn't a very high resolution one.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline Tikva

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:05 GMT (UK) »
This is the best I can do with the image, unless someone knows of somewhere that can improve it further.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand


Offline Neale1961

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:10 GMT (UK) »
I don't think the cap badge resembles the badges of the Maori units in WW1.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/badges-of-maori-units

If he was born in 1900, he may not have served in WW 1 (a bit too young)?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Tikva

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:13 GMT (UK) »
I don't think the cap badge resembles the badges of the Maori units in WW1.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/badges-of-maori-units

If he was born in 1900, he may not have served in WW 1 (a bit too young)?

That was our thinking too, so we wondered if there were Māori Battalions/Regiments in WW2 that he may have served in.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline Neale1961

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:24 GMT (UK) »
I am having trouble with the cap badge.
Does it look at all like the Samoan Relief Force? I am not convinced.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Tikva

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 January 22 06:26 GMT (UK) »
I am having trouble with the cap badge.
Does it look at all like the Samoan Relief Force? I am not convinced.

From the eye of an inexperienced person when it comes to cap badges, it does not look like that particular cap badge.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline shanreagh

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Re: New Zealand Uniform Identification Assistance Request
« Reply #8 on: Friday 28 January 22 08:33 GMT (UK) »
You may be aware that 28th Maori Battalion in WW2 was divided into companies that reflected tribal links.
 
'The battalion was to be organised on a tribal basis, and to this end men from North Auckland (the Ngāpuhi and subtribes) were marched into A Company lines; B Company received the men from Rotorua, Bay of Plenty, Taupo, and the Thames–Coromandel areas, mostly from the Arawa confederation and Tuhoe tribes; C Company comprised the tribes of the East Coast from south of Gisborne to the East Cape, Ngātiporou, Rongowhakaata, and sub-tribes; D Company, unlike the others, which were from compact areas with a closely-knit tribal organisation, extended from the Waikato–Maniapoto confederation area south of Auckland and included the Taranaki tribes, the Ngāti Kahungunu of Hawke's Bay–Wairarapa, the Wellington Province, the whole of the South Island, the Chathams and Stewart Island, and odd men from the Pacific Islands."

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/maori-in-second-world-war/response

You say he went by several names....Matene is the transliteration of the surname Martin so it is not really a different name. Are there others you know of? Do you think another name may have Tahu in it

There is a great resource for Maori land here
https://www.maorilandonline.govt.nz/gis/owner/interestSearch.htm

There is a Wairongoa Matene holding land in the Taitokerau rohe.  Te Hapua 41.  if this your family's kin then the land is way way up north and so if he served in WW2 it is likely that he served in A Company of 28th Maori Battalion. 

If he was born in 1900 he would have been very young but it was not unknown for young men to put their ages up.  My own uncle ran away to Australia and joined the AIF saying he was 18 when he was barely 16.
 
In WW1 the units were known as the Pioneer Battalion.
If you scroll down  in this link you will see some of the hat badges.

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/maori-and-pacific-units/maori-units

The other idea I had was that he may have gone to a secondary school where he joined cadets or whatever they would have been called and this might have been their uniform. 
His shoulders & collar seem to be free of any badges etc (from what I can see)  EDIT. 

I do have a sort of personal connection to a Martin family (part of my ex husband's family). They were from around Waitangi so south of Te Hapua and there was a Maclennan link from Awarua, Fortrose, Catlins area. 

Edit I looked on the Maori land online site under Tahu Wairongoa (actually Tahu Wairongoa Matene) and it has come up with another reference to a block of land
https://www.maorilandonline.govt.nz/gis/title/30072.htm
Parengarenga B3A Recreation reserve.  Also Taitokerau.

This is in the same general area as Te Hapua.

You can carefully read the online file and you may be able to find out a bit more by writing to the Registrar.  They may be able to search the 'succession orders or the history of the block to see who he succedded to his share fom and who succeeded to it....if anyone has?

Finally Nga Puhi has roll lists and help is available for those who want to whakapapa back to a Nga Puhi ancestor.